Do good, make no excuses, just do good, the world desperately needs more of this, and if we all do more, we all win. We rise by helping each other.
Hayven @adventuwe· “What is “good?” To me, it seems as nebulous and unsupported a concept as god.”
My response,
Hayven @adventuwe· “I used to believe something close to this, but I rejected it for this reason: I don’t like causing suffering, and do all I can to avoid it. It is “unethical” by my self-made values. But objective reality doesn’t care either way, it has no properties of rightness or wrongness.”
My response, “Objective reality” in what I think you mean is something like the universe.
Hayven @adventuwe· “How is this any different than my view of individual, self-constructed values?”
My response, We do make our own morality but we also interact in the larger world and this is ethics, not your morals. Morals are your personal morality and ethics is your social morality.
Hayven @adventuwe· “How are imposed social ethics / laws / etc. anything more than “might makes right?” Can’t the religious use the same appeal to popularity to enforce religious ethics, including homophobic, sexist, etc. mandates?”
My response, Laws are not generally just an attempt at morality or ethics but control regardless if not morality related.
Hayven @adventuwe· “I’d agree with you here. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you here? Are you saying ethics are your own views about how to interact with others, or that they are socially imposed views on how to treat others?”
My response,
Axiological Ethics not Pseudo Morality
Moral fear and Moral love (which together motivate my axiological ethics)?
“Babies are born with an innate sense of morality, and while parents and society can help develop a belief system in babies, they don’t create one. Researchers at Yale University’s Infant Cognition Center showed us just how they came to that conclusion.” ref
Hayven @adventuwe· “That is true. Neurotypical humans tend to have inherent moral views, just as they tend to inherently believe in gods and other spiritual or supernatural things. This doesn’t mean such things actually exist, only that believing in them confers a survival advantage.”
My response, No, people don’t have a tendency to inherently believe in gods, but a predisposition to animism. My art
Hayven @adventuwe· “I said “gods and spiritual things,” and animist spirits can be considered gods. Pretty much all societies were animist at one point, and none were atheistic / rationalistic. Animism still doesn’t accurately reflect reality, so my central point still stands.”
My response, “Reason” is not from a mind devoid of “unreason” but rater demonstrates the potential ability to overcome bad thinking.
Hayven @adventuwe· “What is bad thinking in this context? Thinking that is irrational? Would you say animism is irrational in a pre-scientific society? Would you say it’s irrational today, in a scientific one?”
My response, Yes, today with all our knowledge animism is not reasoned.
Hayven @adventuwe· “So if you can accept this, why do you rely on an innate sense of ethics / morality as evidence for the existence of *objective* moral facts? Such things are not supported by science.”
My response, Animism may have seemed reasonable so not irrational in a pre-scientific society. Knowledge brings belief-responsibility.
My response, Good “reason” is an epistemic behavior in thinking, that tends to hold itself accountable.
My response, To me, good thinking follows reason.
My response, Gods are taught.
Hayven @adventuwe· “We don’t disagree there.”
My response, Right on. Yes, at one-time, all societies with pre-science knowledge and understanding, were animists it is learning to be rational that moves us to better thinking and behaving, including morality as well.
Animism: Respecting the Living World by Graham Harvey
“How have human cultures engaged with and thought about animals, plants, rocks, clouds, and other elements in their natural surroundings? Do animals and other natural objects have a spirit or soul? What is their relationship to humans? In this new study, Graham Harvey explores current and past animistic beliefs and practices of Native Americans, Maori, Aboriginal Australians, and eco-pagans. He considers the varieties of animism found in these cultures as well as their shared desire to live respectfully within larger natural communities. Drawing on his extensive casework, Harvey also considers the linguistic, performative, ecological, and activist implications of these different animisms.” ref
ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref
My response, First here are my thoughts on Real Morality vs. Pseudo Morality:
+Morals (Personal Morality relating to a “self” morality): are not held by all in the same way since all are not held to Orthodox faith and though most start with good and bad or right and wrong values, which usually are personally, familially, socially or religiously give or in some way otherworldly defined, thus not universal.
+Ethics (Social Morality relating to a “others” morality): Ethics are not constrained by a given religion’s value systems to motivate its ideas of right and wrong instead it relies on universal truths found in universal principles of just human action. Ethics is set standers uses to personally engage with others and universal truths assist goals of universal ethical standards. Thus, ethics are a general prosocial prescription we as morality aware beings in a rather universal way tend to have some awareness of and it is not just an awareness as in one who holds to ethics often get it applies to all peoples. Some may wish to devalue people but to do so is not really unethical, though often it can lead to unethical behavior. So what I am trying to highlight is how in the behavior that the ethics violation could occur as the internal attitude of devaluing others would only be a possible morals violation such as one who valued virtue and not getting it but failing by the persuasion of devaluing the life of other humans. This simple internal devaluing of humans, that they may be doing is vile. But ethics would not be involved until public behaviors with others, as such ethics is not so much a persuasion as an adherence to a standard(s) that should cover all thus it is highly applicable to utilize in environmental decision making.
Hayven @adventuwe· “So if you can accept this, why do you rely on an innate sense of ethics / morality as evidence for the existence of *objective* moral facts? Such things are not supported by science.”
My response, I have explained myself and given you links with more expansive explanations. I am putting all this in a blog as well.
Hayven @adventuwe· “I would be an a-axiologist. Similar to how an atheist lacks belief in gods, I lack belief in (objective) values.”
Nihilism (basically a-axiology)
“Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ(h)ɪlɪzəm, ˈniː-/; from Latin nihil ‘nothing’, and English -ism) is a philosophy, or family of views within philosophy, that rejects generally accepted or fundamental aspects of human existence, such as objective truth, knowledge, morality, values or meaning. Different nihilist positions hold variously that human values are baseless, that life is meaningless, that knowledge is impossible, or that some set of entities do not exist or are meaningless or pointless.” ref
“Scholars of nihilism may regard it as merely a label that has been applied to various separate philosophies, or as a distinct historical concept arising out of nominalism, skepticism, and philosophical pessimism, as well as possibly out of Christianity itself. Contemporary understanding of the idea stems largely from the Nietzschean ‘crisis of nihilism’, from which derive the two central concepts: the destruction of higher values and the opposition to the affirmation of life. Earlier forms of nihilism, however, may be more selective in negating specific hegemonies of social, moral, political, and aesthetic thought.” ref
“In popular use, the term commonly refers to forms of existential nihilism, according to which life is without intrinsic value, meaning, or purpose. Other prominent positions within nihilism include the rejection of all normative and ethical views (Moral nihilism), the rejection of all social and political institutions (Political nihilism), the stance that no knowledge can or does exist (Epistemological nihilism), and a number of metaphysical positions, which assert that non-abstract objects do not exist (Metaphysical nihilism), that composite objects do not exist (§ Mereological nihilism), or even that life itself does not exist.” ref
To me, “Nihilism” is an emotional response to realizing the world is built on lies thus as a reactionary response they stop seeing “value” and feel morality is fake. As an axiologist thinker I too see this error in society at large and the error of nihilism as well, yes society is not just or morality driven but to this, I call for the efforts of change and adherence to justice as well as championing reasoned morality and prosocial ethics that make reverent dignity.
Axiology (value theory; Value Realism) vs. Nihilism (anti/non-value theory; Value Anti-Realism)
Axiological-Atheist Methodological-Rationalist vs. Platonic-Theistic-Stoic Rationalistic-Nihilist
“Axiology (from Greek ἀξία, axia: “value, worth”; and -λογία, -logia: “study of”) is the philosophical study of value. It includes questions about the nature and classification of values and about what kinds of things have value. It is intimately connected with various other philosophical fields that crucially depend on the notion of value, like ethics, aesthetics, or philosophy of religion. It is also closely related to value theory and meta-ethics.” ref
While hallucinogens are associated with shamanism, it is alcohol that is associated with paganism.
The Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries Shows in the prehistory series:
Show two: Pre-animism 300,000 years old and animism 100,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
Show tree: Totemism 50,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
Show four: Shamanism 30,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
Show five: Paganism 12,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
Show six: Emergence of hierarchy, sexism, slavery, and the new male god dominance: Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves!
Prehistory: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” the division of labor, power, rights, and recourses: VIDEO
Pre-animism 300,000 years old and animism 100,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Totemism 50,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Shamanism 30,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Paganism 12,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Pre-Capitalism): VIDEO
Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves: VIEDO
Paganism 5,000 years old: progressed organized religion and the state: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Kings and the Rise of the State): VIEDO
Paganism 4,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism): VIEDO
I do not hate simply because I challenge and expose myths or lies any more than others being thought of as loving simply because of the protection and hiding from challenge their favored myths or lies.
The truth is best championed in the sunlight of challenge.
An archaeologist once said to me “Damien religion and culture are very different”
My response, So are you saying that was always that way, such as would you say Native Americans’ cultures are separate from their religions? And do you think it always was the way you believe?
I had said that religion was a cultural product. That is still how I see it and there are other archaeologists that think close to me as well. Gods too are the myths of cultures that did not understand science or the world around them, seeing magic/supernatural everywhere.
I personally think there is a goddess and not enough evidence to support a male god at Çatalhöyük but if there was both a male and female god and goddess then I know the kind of gods they were like Proto-Indo-European mythology.
*Next is our series idea that was addressed in, Anarchist Teaching as Free Public Education or Free Education in the Public: VIDEO
Our 12 video series: Organized Oppression: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of power (9,000-4,000 years ago), is adapted from: The Complete and Concise History of the Sumerians and Early Bronze Age Mesopotamia (7000-2000 BC): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFjxmY7jQA by “History with Cy“
Show #1: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Samarra, Halaf, Ubaid)
Show #2: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Eridu “Tell Abu Shahrain”)
Show #3: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Uruk and the First Cities)
Show #4: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (First Kings)
Show #5: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Early Dynastic Period)
Show #6: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (King/Ruler Lugalzagesi)
Show #7: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Sargon and Akkadian Rule)
Show #9: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Gudea of Lagash and Utu-hegal)
Show #12: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of Power (Aftermath and Legacy of Sumer)
The “Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries”
Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ Atheist Leftist @Skepticallefty & I (Damien Marie AtHope) @AthopeMarie (my YouTube & related blog) are working jointly in atheist, antitheist, antireligionist, antifascist, anarchist, socialist, and humanist endeavors in our videos together, generally, every other Saturday.
Why Does Power Bring Responsibility?
Think, how often is it the powerless that start wars, oppress others, or commit genocide? So, I guess the question is to us all, to ask, how can power not carry responsibility in a humanity concept? I know I see the deep ethical responsibility that if there is power their must be a humanistic responsibility of ethical and empathic stewardship of that power. Will I be brave enough to be kind? Will I possess enough courage to be compassionate? Will my valor reached its height of empathy? I as everyone earns our justified respect by our actions, that are good, ethical, just, protecting, and kind. Do I have enough self-respect to put my love for humanity’s flushing, over being brought down by some of its bad actors? May we all be the ones doing good actions in the world, to help human flourishing.
I create the world I want to live in, striving for flourishing. Which is not a place but a positive potential involvement and promotion; a life of humanist goal precision. To master oneself, also means mastering positive prosocial behaviors needed for human flourishing. I may have lost a god myth as an atheist but I am happy to tell you my friend, it is exactly because of that, leaving the mental terrorizer, god belief that I truly regained my connected ethical as well as kind humanity.
Cory and I will talk about prehistory and theism, addressing the relevance to atheism, anarchism, and socialism.
At the same time of the rise of the male god 7,000 years ago was also the very time there was the rise of violence war, and clans to kingdoms, then empires, then states. It is all connected back to 7,000 years ago and it mover across the world.
Cory Johnston: https://damienmarieathope.com/2021/04/cory-johnston-mind-of-a-skeptical-leftist/?v=32aec8db952d
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist (YouTube)
Cory Johnston: Mind of a Skeptical Leftist
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist By Cory Johnston: “Promoting critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics by covering current events and talking to a variety of people. Cory Johnston has been thoughtfully talking to people and attempting to promote critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics.”
Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ @Skepticallefty Evidence-based atheist leftist (he/him) Producer, host, and co-host of 4 podcasts @skeptarchy @skpoliticspod and @AthopeMarie
http://anchor.fm/skepticalleft
He needs our support. We rise by helping each other.
Damien Marie AtHope (“At Hope”) Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist. Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Poet, Philosopher, Advocate, Activist, Psychology, and Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Historian.
Damien is interested in: Freedom, Liberty, Justice, Equality, Ethics, Humanism, Science, Atheism, Antiteism, Antireligionism, Ignosticism, Left-Libertarianism, Anarchism, Socialism, Mutualism, Axiology, Metaphysics, LGBTQI, Philosophy, Advocacy, Activism, Mental Health, Psychology, Archaeology, Social Work, Sexual Rights, Marriage Rights, Woman’s Rights, Gender Rights, Child Rights, Secular Rights, Race Equality, Ageism/Disability Equality, Etc. And a far-leftist, “Anarcho-Humanist.”
What if kindness was an unlimited free commodity of high worth, that had the potential power to change the world would that matter? And what justification would stop you from using it more often, when the world is in such need?
May I use all of whatever “Will” I have to be the best me I can be, may I be a good human. To me, we are responsible to do what is of value. Not ego, not pride, not self-dealing, but genuinely embody a heart of kindness, one that breathes deep a care for humanity.
“Are you a good person” and how would others know without you telling them, “I am a good person” because words need justification… Be more mentally dangerous to hate, thus freely love and support kindness.
Don’t strive to make others wither under your gaze. No, BE a humanity hero, an inspiration of positive change all can become empowered by and become their best, even if only at one kind or thoughtful action at a time.
Train your brain to think ethically. We are responsible for the future, we are the future, living in the present, soon to be passed, so we must act with passion because life is over just like that. I am just another fellow dignity being. May I be a good human.
Art by Damien Marie AtHope
Damien Marie AtHope (Said as “At” “Hope”)/(Autodidact Polymath but not good at math):
Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist, Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Jeweler, Poet, “autodidact” Philosopher, schooled in Psychology, and “autodidact” Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Pre-Historian (Knowledgeable in the range of: 1 million to 5,000/4,000 years ago). I am an anarchist socialist politically. Reasons for or Types of Atheism
My Website, My Blog, My (free accesses) Patreon, My (free accesses) Patreon Blog & Short-writing or Quotes My YouTube, Twitter: @AthopeMarie, and My Email: damien.marie.athope@gmail.com