“What is love? Is it explainable even if explained?”

What you are about to read regards “love”, A correspondence between two thinkers,

Jersey Flight and Damien Marie AtHope

*I, Damien offer that love is not one thing but is definable even in romantic love.

Six Types of Love

Eros:

is romantic, passionate, love. In this type of relationship, love is life’s most important thing. A search for physical beauty or an ideal type also typifies this type of love.

Ludus:

is a game-playing or uncommitted love. Lying is part of the game. A person who pursues ludic love may have many conquests but remains uncommitted.

Storge or affection:

is a slow developing, friendship-based loved. People with this type of relationship like to participate in activities together. Often storge results in a long-term relationship in which sex might not be very intense or passionate.

Pragma:

is a pragmatic, practical, mutually beneficial relationship. It may be somewhat unromantic. A person who leans toward this type of relationship may look for a partner at work or where the person is spending time. Sex is likely to be seen as a technical matter needed for producing children, if they are desired.

Mania:

is an obsessive or possessive love, jealous and extreme. A person in love this way is likely to do something crazy or silly, such as stalking.

Agape:

is a gentle, caring, giving type of love, brotherly love, not concerned with the self. It is relatively rare.

One study found that men were more likely to show the ludic type of love, while women were more likely to be storgic or pragmatic.

Another study conducted in two American introductory psychology classes of over 250 students each, the first five types were all familiar to over 80% of the students from their personal experience (their own relationships or people they knew). However, less than 10% of students knew somebody who expressed agape.

Studies of couples happily married for over 30 years showed that couples who rated their marriages as highly satisfactory described their relationship in terms which resembled erotic love more than the other five types. This might be surprising; in view of the earlier-mentioned finding that limerence type relationships tend to flare out quickly among college students. However, it might be the case that long-term relationships that contain both friendship and a passionate spark are more likely to endure and provide satisfaction to both parties than relationships that are low-key and pragmatic.

http://www.intropsych.com/ch16_sfl/six_types_of_love.html

ON THE NATURE OF LOVE

An Exchange between Jersey Flight and Damien Marie Athope

———-JERSEY FLIGHT———-

Love crashes like a wave,
Love subverts,
Love pursues against all reason.

It occurs to me (and god knows I am not ready to give this concession to any subject) that I think of love as something mystical as opposed to scientific. I suppose that love is the closest man can come to mysticism; the closest he can come to the divine. This is because I see love as irrational but powerful. If there is one thing we can assign the category of mysticism it must be that of love (God is not worthy). If there is one subject that defies understanding it must be that of love. I suspect that love is often without reason, which is to say, the reason for love is love itself.

———-DAMIEN ATHOPE———-

We may want love to be mysticism as we don’t want it to be understandable by science but I am here to tell you this is emotionalism as we do understand quite a lot about love but as to your point seems to say, that ability to explain the what is not the same as making the why seem any more reasoned even if the reason is identified.

10 Psychology Studies on love: http://www.spring.org.uk/2014/02/10-psychology-studies-every-lover-should-know.php

10 Research-Based Truths About People in Love: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mindful-self-express/201311/10-research-based-truths-about-people-in-love

What is Love? Well, according to some authors, love is defined as a desire to enter, maintain, or expand a close, connected, and ongoing relationship with another person. Considerable evidence supports a basic distinction, first offered in 1978, between passionate love (“a state of intense longing for union with another”) and other types of romantic love, labeled companionate love (“the affection we feel for those with whom our lives are deeply entwined”). The evidence for this distinction comes from a variety of research methods, including psychometric techniques (e.g., factor analysis, multidimensional scaling, and prototype analysis), examinations of the behavioral and relationship consequences of different forms of romantic love, and biological studies, which are discussed in this article. Most work has focused on identifying and measuring passionate love and several aspects of romantic love, which includes two components: intimacy and commitment. Some scholars see companionate love as a combination of intimacy and commitment whereas others see intimacy as the central component, with commitment as a peripheral factor (but important in its own right, such as for predicting relationship longevity). In some studies, trust and caring were considered highly prototypical of love, whereas uncertainty and “butterflies in the stomach” were more peripheral. Passionate and companionate love solves different adaptational problems. Passionate love may be said to solve the attraction problem—that is, for individuals to enter into a potentially long-term mating relationship, they must first identify and select suitable candidates, attract the other’s interest, engage in relationship-building behavior, and then go about reorganizing existing activities and relationships so as to include the other. All of this is effortful, time-consuming, and disruptive. Consequently, passionate love is associated with many changes in cognition, emotion, and behavior. For the most part, these changes are consistent with the idea of disrupting existing activities, routines, and social networks to orient the individual’s attention and goal-directed behavior toward a specific new partner. Sexual desire is often substantially linked to passionate love, although existing evidence suggests that they are empirically and functionally distinguishable. For example, romantic attraction and sexuality involve different brain systems, a contention supported de novo by recent functional magnetic resonance imaging studies. Considerably less effort has been devoted toward understanding the evolutionary significance of the intimacy and commitment aspects of love. However, much evidence indicates that love in long-term relationships is associated with intimacy, trust, caring, and attachment, all factors that contribute to the maintenance of relationships over time. More generally, the term companionate love may be characterized by a communal relationship: a relationship built on mutual expectations that one’s self and a partner will be responsive to each other’s needs. It was speculated that companionate love, or at least the various processes associated with it, is responsible for the noted association between social relatedness and health and well-being. In a recent series of papers, it was claimed that marriage is linked to health benefits. Having noted the positive functions of love, it is also important to consider the dark side. That is, problems in love and love relationships are a significant source of suicides, homicides, and both major and minor emotional disorders, such as anxiety and depression. Love matters not only because it can make our lives better, but also because it is a major source of misery and pain that can make life much worse. One particularly timely prediction is that psychological theories of love are likely to become more biologically informed, in the sense that the psychological and behavioral phenomena associated with love will have clear, comprehensible, and distinguishable neural and hormonal substrates. This will be useful not so much for the intrinsic purpose of identifying the brain and body regions in which love occurs, but rather because the identification of neural and hormonal circuits corresponding to particular experiences and behaviors will allow researchers to sort the various phenomena associated with love into their natural categories. For example, it will be important to further distinguish passionate love from companionate love on the one hand and from lust (i.e., sexual feelings) on the other. This distinction will be important for a key reason: although current evidence strongly suggests that these three forms of love involve different biological systems, different functions, different behaviors, and different consequences, much thinking in both popular culture and in the scientific literature conflates them. It will also be valuable to examine how neural activations of passionate and companionate love evolve in a given relationship over time, corresponding to experiential changes. It is also believed that research will address how culture shapes the experience and expression of love. Although both passionate and companionate love appears to be universal, it is apparent that their manifestations may be moderated by culture-specific norms and rules. Passionate and companionate love have profoundly different implications for marriage around the world, considered essential in some cultures but contra-indicated or rendered largely irrelevant in others. For example, among U.S. college students in the 1960s, only 24% of women and 65% of men considered love to be the basis of marriage, but in the 1980s this view was endorsed by more than 80% of both women and men. And, finally, the authors believe that the future will see a better understanding of what may be the quintessential question about love: how this very individualistic feeling is shaped by experiences in interaction with particular others. https://riordanclinic.org/2012/02/psychological-research-on-love-and-its-influence-in-adult-human-relationships/

———-JERSEY FLIGHT———-

There is no reason in fatal self-sacrifice to promote the well being of another but that of love. What I am ready to concede is that love is a form of caring that transcends reason.

———-DAMIEN ATHOPE———-

Fatal self-sacrifice is a evolutionary motivation of group thinking and evidence of social domestication that happens outside of love all the time both in humans, animals and bugs its nothing mystical at all to me. How we tamed ourselves—and became modern ‘Self-domestication’ turned humans into the cooperative species we are today. http://www.umass.edu/preferen/You%20Must%20Read%20This/Science-2014-Gibbons-405-6.pdf Darwin actually addressed this issue. At first, the characteristic of altruism, the willingness to sacrifice oneself for the seeming good of one’s ethnic or kin group, seemed to him to be at odds with his theory of natural selection. He then realized that this paradox would disappear if he changed his focus from the individual with a good genetic adaptation to the group to which the individual belonged. A single individual with a genetic mutation that is highly desirable and adaptive may still die before reproducing. If a group such as a family, a herd, or a tribe has many individuals who share the adaptation, then the propagation of that gene becomes far more likely. The survival of a genetic adaptation is dependent on the size of the number of individuals who share the genes, not just on the presence or absence of the gene in a single individual. If the individual organism’s sacrifice of itself or its offspring helps a whole group to survive, the genes that predispose it to this behavior are selected for over time. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201108

———-JERSEY FLIGHT———-

There are two readers of this exchange: those in love, and those who merely stand at a distance and analyze what they think they see. I suspect the substance of love is not the analysis, but the experience of love.

Whether or not this greatest of all events; whether or not this greatest of all gifts; whether or not this most powerful of all substances can be explained biologically, makes little contact with the experience of the lover. So far as I know there is no greater force in the universe than that of love. Reducing love to a syllogism or empirical observation seems to miss the authentic transcendence of love. While I do not believe in love as a supernatural thing; I do believe that love is the only thing that comes close to the supernatural, which is merely to speak of the power of love. While your discourse focuses on the biological explanation of love, my exposition is specifically centered on the transcendence of love. And by transcendence I am not referring to metaphysics or invisible forces; I am referring to the power of love in the context of life. Love, like hope, has the quality of transcendence. And I suppose (if we must) this can be explained by the provocation of strong feelings… however, I totally deny that these feelings are merely a figment of the imagination (for God is thus but Love is not). In this sense my dear friend… in the name of greatness, this means love is real! Respectfully yours, Jersey Flight

———-DAMIEN ATHOPE———-

How you refer to love seems to be addressing the complex phenomenology of love. Which is still definable and to me while love is wonderful in many its attachments are natural and I reject all mystical talk as its giving that supernatural way of thinking credibility which to me it has none. To me the only transcendence is to go beyond the limitations of self and try to understand or emotionally experience through empathy the lives of others. It is easy to add all kinds of different types of emotions labeling them under love as a do everything word but is this reasoning is such thinking to make it something it may not be or do we just add that which we like or are all things justified under love? What emotions belong under the table love do we have a standard or are we doing special pleading to keep love magical-seeming? If so why? If we make it just another valued emotion is it less valuable? Not to me. Real-world experience(s), to me, has/have value, not needing mystical anything and not losing anything by being explainable. What do you as the reader think? The look of love? What if someone asked you to think about what love looks like, what would be your answer? If you where to think about what love looks like, wouldn’t it be a growth exercise meant to build self enlightenment and self truth? Do you feel I or any one can define your truth about love? If someone defined your truth about love for you, would you really own it? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead for me to broaden your ability to see the question, “what love looks like”? First, you would likely want to think, does a question like this of such a personal relevance have right answers? Next, you would likely want to start thinking on what love is, would we look at are fallible behavior or some philosophical definition? If we look at our relations with others, could we be convicted of loving? If we wish for a philosophical definition of love, what realities does it hold in our real lives? Is love a feeling or a behavior? If we look at love as a feeling, what emotional substance does it stem from? If we look at love as behavior, is it fixed in the behaviors of others?

May the actions of my life be written deep with the poetry of my humanity.

I am a caring firebrand atheist, wishing to be hard on ideas but kind to people. And, as an Axiological (Theoretical and Normative VALUE Theorist philosopher) Atheist, I understand and utilize value or actually “Value Consciousness” to both give a strong moral “axiological” argument (the problem of evil) as well as use it to fortify my humanism and positive ethical persuasion of human helping and care. Value-blindness gives rise to sociopathic evil.

I have been asked before, how can I stand to deal with illogical, ones lacking critical thinking, the unreasonable, misinformed but fully believe, deliberately uninformed or deluded people, often so kindly?

Well, I believe in others, or at least their ability to reason even if you don’t know how or are not paying attention currently. I can do deal with most people as I am often fighting for them even if they only feel I am against them and it usually is not that hard to do with a heart of compassion, as I care for the future of humanity and people have value. And, if people don’t listen or grasp logic, I try something else like reasoning. If they will not listen or grasp reasoning, I will try just getting them to think, maybe on something they can agree or they do understand trying to work them back to the rationalism they are not getting or are avoiding. Then, if I can get them to reason, I build that up to logic. If they don’t seem to get them to thinking or are trying to avoid I can draw them back to feelings, maybe on something they can agree or they do understand trying to work them back to thinking, then reasoning, and then finally back to logic with which they are not getting or are avoiding. In a general way, all reality, in a philosophic sense, is an emergent property of reason, and knowing how reason accrues does not remove its warrant. Feelings are experienced then perceived, leading to thinking, right thinking is reason, right reason is logic, right logic is mathematics, right mathematics is physics and from there all science.

As an atheist, I feel more wonder than I did as a theist because I thought, “big deal” to any wonder I experienced, thinking god could do anything. So with such an unrealistic mindset, everything lost its wonder but it’s the opposite as an atheist. As a theist, the world was full of superstitions and supernatural magic possibilities and thus utilized thinking that was not in the real world. As an atheist all I have now is the real world, not that all atheists seem to get this, we all are in a real world devoid of magic anything, therefore, everything adds to my feeling of awe. There should be little debate with atheist acknowledging discernable reality compared to theists with non-reality claims. Yes, I have way more awe and wonder as an atheist than I ever had as a theist because as a theist anything was possible with god. Therefore, as a theist things where not that amazing. However, as an atheist grasping what an absolute accidental or how random things are, with a 95 to 99 % of all life ever existing on this planet went extinct. I am thoroughly amazed we are even here the evolved children of ancient exploded stars, likely born in galaxies born in supermassive black holes, it’s all amazing.

A Rational Mind Values Humanity

A truly rational mind sees the need for humanity, as they too live in the world and see themselves as they actually are an alone body in the world seeking comfort and safety. Thus, see the value of everyone around them, as they too are the same and therefore, rationally as well a humanistically, we should work for this humanity we are part of. Moreover, we simply can either dwell in or help its flourishing (the humanity we are part of), as we are all in a metaphoric way, are in the hands of each other and communally need each other. We rise by helping each other and we may fail if we keep going as hurtful as humans too often are to each other. May we be good humans. We can be builders of life or its destruction. The person is political so the actions of my life are the expression of my political values even before I tell you what brand I may claim. We are not our past, though we are bound to it. We are also not our future self yet. So, just be the best you in the here and now. May the actions of my life be written deep with the poetry of my humanity. What do your actions say?

I am a high thinking primate, just trying to live an honorable life, being of service to others, and I wish as a life’s mission to be a kindness aficionado. And, I like to contemplate humans, humanity, and human flourishing.

My core definition of Humanism,is that humans can solve human problems by human means. I am not saying other things can’t or shouldn’t be added to it but to me, a definition of humanism must always contain something coherent to such a thinking or not contradict such as I have offered. Thus, why it is appropriate to say “good without god” when one is a humanist.

Reject the Weakness of Anger and Open to the Strength of Kindness.

I wish to be more than the weakness of anger and instead with open arms of love welcome and support kindness as a way of life, not just a thing I do if convent. To me, it is almost never deserved rather it’s a gift. How beautiful is kindness not earned? Well, in my personal case at 17 when a thoughtful person showed me undeserved kindness and in my case it was life-changing. This kindness gift as often as I can as people matter. I wish to add value to the world and send out kindness to the world wishing to promote human flourishing as much as I can and we flourish best in acceptance, understanding, and support, may I be a good human I would be proud to be inspired by. I am wise realizing the wisest thing I have ever done was be kind, even though for me it has been so hard and I am proud to say I am a good human who strives to be kind. Character is not something you get by accident. Just like caring for humanity should not be something you only do if it is not to hard or support equality if it’s convenient. One makes a choice to champion what is right because it is right, knowing that to do so will take hard work and one is proud to do so because they have character. I see a care for humanity as an honor for the direct part I play in it.

May I be a kindness aficionado…

Even when I am debating people who are aggressive, I don’t generally wish to be aggressive back not for them but for the person I want to be. I do sometimes fail at this as I am not always as great at emotional intelligence as I would like to be. Ideally, I would be stoic but I am a hot head and that is something I am constantly striving for as I don’t want to abuse others even with words. I don’t try to make others look bad. I want to help others. I am intelligent and could be mean but I am also very thoughtful as well as open by nature, I also strive to be wise. Thus, I wish to be kind to others as much as I can, even those who are unkind to me, as I wish to be such a bright light of kindness that it can change lives and that is so valuable to me. I don’t want to be their leader I wish to inspire them to be their own leader and thus I see I must assist others not to attack others. I am that freak of nature, a power from the anti-power crusaders, warring against the power dynamic to return it back where it belongs- the hands of the people. I am a free-thinking invader into the shell of malignancy infecting humanity which strangles reason out of the world. A proud anarchy theorist, I breathe the fire of the heathens, a thought revolutionary and mental freedom fighter. I am a humanist atheist who desires a better world for us all, one that is kinder, more just, and more rational in its pursuits. I am the “one” you have been waiting for I am will to power, a deep thought so true it has taken flight to the lofty aspirations dreamed for and a care transmitted to offer hope to humanity I believe in you and will strive to champion you with all I have for you are so worthy…

The eyes of the world predicted my failure but here I am, I am a survivor, No longer do I hide my face, I no longer fear a fall from your grace for I find my courage plain as day in the human race, may I be a good human. May I put truth above all and valiantly thrust a crusade or truth and caring, which will help show love can and will in the end if only in my black heart so often close to that deadman’s plank. I am a fighter, I don’t need you to save me, I don’t need your empty claims of magic in the world, a stumbling block to many, yet, I am no longer one of them, I am will to power. Say the truth plainly don’t allow pretend but do so with a caring desire to teach as one would to a friend. May I be a caring firebrand atheist. One, with an awakened humanity fully alive in my humanist heart, Desiring to Demonstrate my humanitarianism as I fully stand up for truth as a reality as well as kindness as all reality revolutionaries should, strongly speaking what is right as the truth is not pretended. I am bound by the limitations we all face but may I bravely be a good human past it all…

Kindness is not some act I try to do, it is a way of life I strive to follow. Similarly to how one’s character is not in a single thing done but a reflection of who one is. Just like one’s value is more in whom they are as a whole than only limited to a single event or expression. I once thought no one is friendly, so I decided to be a friend. No one seemed to care, so I realize I needed to care. No one made you feel as if you mattered, so I started valuing others. I see the world I wish to live in starts with me.

Kindness, you are my friend, how I long for your embrace, the gentleness of your touch and the beauty of your face. Kindness my breath of hope made anew, how I am inspired by you and flourish under your gaze. Kindness my teacher of compassion, my path in life, how I desire to be like you, by your caring I was made into you. Kindness my sturdy tower, my reprieve in life in the final hour.

Be thoughtful in what you say, because, words once released have power, due to them being a method of transferring feelings not just ideas. Words are world builders and dramatic destructors. They can build mental castles to protect or dungeons to torment. May I strive to be kind to others with my words. And, I think back on my life, it’s not the times I was the most selfish but the times I was kind, that brighten my life. May I now make an even stronger effort to do so in all I do, as it’s so valuable to an enriched wellbeing in life.

We as humanity must work together as one people and one human race. We can no longer sit back and watch the world burn. We are accountable for the world staying the same thus leading to extended suffering, or change the world to start alleviating suffering. For too long we have gotten comfortable with eyes of hate, which only seem to find victims, instead of eyes of love, helping us find friends. I am not calling for fighting for a political party; I am trying to inspire humanitarian flourishing not limited to even a country. As I wish to look to the big picture, that we are all global citizens, and I say it’s time we start acting like it. I, as others, promise to strive to help be the change so needed in this world. Will you join us?