Faithism (Fideism “faith-ism”): the act of thinking like the “faith drunk” (a belief that religious claims are validated by the belief in faith one has. As if, to such “faith-drunk-thinkers” their faith is some kind of proof or evidence for magical/supernatural claims devoid of all external evidence. Or Faithism (Fideism “faith-drunk-thinkers”) involves thinking that faith is superior to evidence or reason in relation to superstitious, magical or religious claims (relativism epistemology at best). The existence of other religions presents a fundamental question to fideists—if faith (“faith-ism”/“faith drunk”) is the only way to know the truth of god, how are we to know which god(s) to have faith in? Fideism alone is not in any way accurate nor an adequate guide to distinguish true or morally valuable proposed revelations from false ones. An apparent consequence of fideism is that all religious thinking becomes equal guessing.
What me to respect your beliefs then have respectable beliefs to start with, thus reject faithism.
The god claim is a clown car in the magic big top of Fideism!
The god claim is like a clown car rolling in from out of nowhere and it seems like it is only one or possibly a few bad ideas, but no. No, it is a dark festival that masquerades as truth but it is only an evil funhouse of mirrors that distorts reality. The term god is an empty meaningless term and if it was not for man-made myths or wild speculations which are usually the misinterpretations of nature, no one would claim to know what a god is or could be. Unless one falls back to the circus of fallacies in the magic big top of fideism and the faith fallacy that you do not need anything but faith to validate, justify, or prove any mystical belief you so desire. Theists like to confuse the understanding of atheism to lessen its obvious reason. So here’s a definition of atheism: all offered claims of god(s) are baseless and devoid of a shred of testable or provable evidence and the claims of or about gods either don’t represent in reality or claim to represent things contrary to reality requiring a conclusion of atheism (lack of belief or disbelief in theism). The god claim, is a clown car in the magic big top of Fideism (faith-ism)!
Presuppositional Apologetics is Just Fascist Fideism
Presuppositionalism to me is fascist Christian fideism: Christofascism was caused by the embracing of arrogant authoritarian theology by Christian thinkers. Fascism, in this case, is a form of radical authoritarianism theory about epistemology: the theory of knowledge, beliefs, truth etc. especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. The ideological roots of fascism have been traced back to the 1880s, and in particular to the fin de siècle theme of that time notably supporting emotionalism, irrationalism. The theme was based on a revolt against materialism, rationalism, and positivism. Fascism may seem a bit extreme a claim but it can start to sound like fundamental christianity in how it adopted policies such as promoting family values, banning literature on birth control and increased penalties for abortion.
Presuppositionalism positions itself as Christian authoritarian fideism (all must accept their apologetic theology). It puts others under philosophic skepticism and places itself under fideism. Fideism is roughly a doctrine that faith is the basis of all knowledge.
Presuppositionalism is a school of Christian apologetics that believes the Christian faith is the only basis for rational thought. It presupposes that the Bible is divine revelation and attempts to expose flaws in other worldviews. It claims that apart from presuppositions, one could not make sense of any human experience, and there can be no set of neutral assumptions from which to reason with a non-Christian.
The Doctrine of Fascism states, “The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.”
Let’s see how well The Doctrine of Presuppositionalism sounds in the place of The Doctrine of Fascism
“The Presuppositionalist conception of the Christian apologetics is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Presuppositionalism is totalitarian, and the Presuppositionalist Christian apologetics — a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.”
Critics of presuppositional apologetics claim that it is logically invalid because it begs the question of the truth of Christianity and the non-truth of other worldviews.
Fideism is an epistemological theory which maintains that faith is independent of reason, or that reason and faith are hostile to each other and faith is superior at arriving at particular truths (see natural theology). The word fideism comes from fides, the Latin word for faith, and literally means “faith-ism.”
Fideism has received criticism from theologians who argue that fideism is not a proper way to worship God. According to this position, if one does not attempt to understand what one believes, one is not really believing. “Blind faith” is not true faith.
Fideism can lead to relativism. The existence of other religions puts a fundamental question to fideists—if faith is the only way to know the truth of God, how are we to know which God to have faith in? Fideism alone is not considered an adequate guide to distinguish true or morally valuable revelations from false ones. An apparent consequence of fideism is that all religious thinking becomes equal. The major monotheistic religions become on par with obscure fringe religions, as neither can be advocated or disputed. As articulated by Friedrich Nietzsche, “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything”.
The circularity of Presuppositional Apologetics
The goal of presuppositional apologetics is to argue that the assumptions and actions of non-Christians require them to believe certain things about God, man and the world which they claim they do not believe. This type of argument is technically called a reductio ad absurdum in that it attempts to reduce the opposition to holding an absurd, i.e. contradictory position; in this case, both believing in facts of Christian revelation (in practice) and denying them (in word). So in essence, presuppositional apologetics attempts to claim all facts for the Christian worldview as the only framework in which they are intelligible. The reasoning in such arguments is fallacious because simply presupposing the conclusion is true in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Clearly, assuming a claim is true does not constitute evidence for that claim. (“X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true.”) They should be able to do this in a way that isn’t also equally valid for the truth claims of any other religion. If this can not be done, I can only assume that in their realm of thinking all religious scripture, from any religion is equally valid and equally true removing any special claim for christianity or they are using special pleading.
Presuppositionalism is a form of fideism that is based on philosophical skepticism. Presuppositionalists generally believe that theological assumptions or presuppositions are loaded into the epistemological foundation of every ‘worldview’ [i.e. philosophy]. Since they also believe that every worldview built on false presuppositions is a false worldview and that Christianity is the only true religion, therefore, they conclude that only the worldview (i.e. philosophy) built on Christian presuppositions is true or reliable. The error is located in the very first premise, i.e. in the notion that theological assumptions or presuppositions lie behind every claim or position, theory, or philosophy. Why do they think that? Is Fascist Christian Fideism and the trinity of logical fallacies: begging the question, special pleading, and circular reasoning.
If you point out the circularity in the thinking of Presuppositionalism they may say well under your worldview all positions are circular and under our worldview, we have the truth of Christian god so we are not bothered by such a claim of circularity in the thinking as god created all thinking.
“We can say that at their core all positions are circular however this is not proof of the equalizations of all circular positions.”
I am stating this to address religion circular positions such as “are not equal to the problem of deduction (reason) and the problem of induction (evidence) underlining all problems in philosophy, especially epistemology.
All deductive systems, logic in particular and philosophy in general, rely on the truth of its axioms or premises. So the problem of deduction is really that it is impossible to know the truth of axioms without assuming some a priori “fountain of truth” on which to rely. While rationalism claims access to the truth of innate ideas or revelation, skepticism rightfully points out that such fountain of truth is unattainable.
The problem of induction is the philosophical question of whether inductive reasoning leads to knowledge, since it focuses on the alleged lack of justification for either: Generalizing or Presupposing.
1. Generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class (for example, the inference that “all swans we have seen are white, and, therefore, all swans are white”, before the discovery of black swans) or
2. Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the principle of uniformity of nature.
Presuppositional apologetic fascist Christian fideism contrasts every non-Christian epistemology with Christian epistemology by saying that Christian epistemology believes in an ultimate rationalism while all other systems of epistemology believe in an ultimate irrationalism by the default of not being or starting with a Christian epistemology.
Certainly one of the most frequent characterizations of the presuppositional apologetic of Cornelius Van Til is that it is “fideistic.” Lewis, for example, is concerned that Van Til, despite serving forty-five years as a professor of apologetics, has constructed a system of theology, not a system of apologetics. In Lewis’s estimation, Van Til has not supplied a means of disputing with unbelievers concerning the truthfulness of Christianity. “In the name of defending the faith he has left the faith defenseless. Montgomery likewise warns against Van Til’s tendency to treat the unbeliever as a believer, working out systematic theology and its implications rather than verifying Christianity by “focusing upon their needs” and using as a “starting point” the “common rationality. Montgomery fears that Van Til has given the unbeliever “the impression that our gospel is as aprioristically, fideistically irrational as the presuppositional claims of its competitors.’” Pinnock also raises the same issue. While saluting the contribution that Van Til has made to “a virile twentieth century apologetic,” Pinnock contends that “a curious epistemology derived from a modern Calvinistic school of philosophy in Holland has led him to align his orthodox theology with a form of irrational fideism.”s Geisler, in his Christian Apologetics, includes Van Til in his chapter on fideism along with Pascal, Kierkegaard, and Barth. Geisler states that Van Til “speaks from a strong Reformed Biblical perspective theologically and yet in an absolute revelational presuppositionalism apologetically. “Methodological fideism” is Geisler’s term for this position.? Geisler notes five “central contentions” that are characteristic of fideism (including, apparently, that of Van Til): (1) faith alone is the way to God; (2) truth is not found in the purely rational or objective realm, if it is there at all; (3) evidence and reason do not point definitively in the direction of God; (4) the tests of truth are existential, not rational; and (5) not only God’s revelation but his grace is the source of all truth. Hanna has contended that “presuppositionism” (as he terms it) is able, in response to inquiries as to the warrant for belief, to answer only “in terms of obscurantistic fideism. Hanna regularly uses presuppositionism and fideism interchangeably in his book. More recently, Sproul, Gerstner, and Lindsley have argued that protestations to the contrary notwithstanding-Van Til’s apologetic has no place (or at least not warranted place) for reasoning with or giving evidence to unbelievers. In their judgment, fideism is the inevitable result of Van Til’s presuppositionalism. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
God, the Presuppositional Error
First, truly what is a god and how can you claim to know about it? Guessing is not evidence, neither is wild, unfounded assertions that are written in reality devoid documents such as holy books. Atheists do not have to prove that gods do not exist, as gods have never been proven to exist. Nor is there any good reason to think they could exist.
Vague Theism or god Somethingism: just say NO
“Damien sir, i am in a dilemma, can you help me???? i don’t believe in any particular god, but i believe in the god, i believe everything exist in this whole universe is part of god, am i an atheist????? each & everything made out of some mass & energy……” – Challenger
My response, you are a pantheist, a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of god(s).
“Damien, as the conservation theory explain that the total mass & energy is constant, & we are made from these mass & energy, why we are not part of the god???” – Challenger
My response, to me to call a thing god is to say it’s a superpower with a mind or intelligent expressed will. I don’t see anything like that in nature.
“Damien, sorry sir, but to me it’s the entire mass & energy of the cosmos, which runs on some simple some physical rule……” – Challenger
My response, then it’s not a god.
“Damien, why sir????” – Challenger
My response, it’s like me calling love the expressed emotion god because all humans and most animals have this. But this is a logical fallacy of categorical error. A category mistake (or category error) is a logical fallacy that occurs when a speaker (knowingly or not) confuses the properties of the whole with the properties of a part. It contains the fallacy of composition (assuming the whole has the properties of the part) and the fallacy of division (assuming the part has the properties of the whole).
“Damien, i believe everything i can touch, see or feel, are part of god, even my toilet also is part of my god…… that’s why i never go to the temple (by the certificate i’m a hindu), or any kind of religious place…. my work is my religion…. & god (as I believe) never failed me….. i always get result as i worked…” – Challenger
My response, everything in the real world can fail and does so often. You sound like you have made your claim of god above failure. However, if there is no standard to fail by then there is also no standard to success. So, either your titled god does nothing or to you it does everything but then your label of god actually ends up meaning nothing….
Why are all gods unjustified?
Okay, so, anything you claim needs justification but no one has evidence of god claim attributes they are all unjustified. All god talk as if it is real acts as if one can claim magic is real by thinking it is so or by accepting someone’s claim of knowing the unjustifiably that they understand an unknowable, such as claims of gods being anything as no one has evidence to start such fact devoid things as all knowing (there is no evidence of an all-knowing anything). Or an all-powerful (there is no evidence of an all-powerful anything). Or the most ridiculous an all-loving (there is no evidence of an all-loving anything). But like all god claims, they are not just evidence lacking, the one claiming them has no justified reason to assume that they can even claim them as proof (it’s all the empty air of faith). Therefore, as the limit of all people, is to only be able to justify something from and that which corresponds to the real-world to be real and the last time I checked there is no magic of any kind in our real-world experiences. So, beyond the undefendable magical thinking not corresponding to the real-world how much more ridicules are some claimed supreme magical claimed being thus even more undefendable to the corresponding real-world, which the claimed god(s) thinking is a further and thus more extremely unjustified claim(s).
What is this god you seem to think you have any justification to claim?
Saying that some features of reality are not fully known is not proof of god myth claims. II’s not like every time we lack knowledge, we can just claim magic and if we do we are not being intellectually honest to the appraisal of reality that is devoted of anything magic. So what is a god, when no one has some special knowledge to say what it could be and shotgunning unjustifiable hypothetical claims that one thing or another that you like must gold some magic which there is no evidence of magic anything? Thus, to assert magic anythings by its nature an unjustified ascertain to even present. God claims are presupposition errors in how they are most often assumed to be a hypothetical explanation to the unknown or fear of something it’s not from facts in reality.
God: “antihumanism thinking”
God thinking is a superstitiously transmitted disease, that usually is accompanied by some kind of antihumanism thinking. Relatively all gods, in general, are said to have the will and power over humans. Likewise, such god claims often are attributed to be the ones who decide morality thus remove the true morality nature in humans that actually assist us in morality. So, adding a god is to welcome antihumanism burdens, because god concepts are often an expression. This is especially so when any so-called god somethingism are said to makes things like hells is an antihumanism thinking. A general humanism thinking to me is that everyone owns themselves, not some god and everyone is equal. Such humanism thinking to me, requires a shunning of coercion force that removes a human’s rights or the subjugation of oppression and threats for things like requiring belief or demanding faith in some other unjustified abstraction from others. Therefore, humanism thinking is not open to being in such a beliefs, position or situations that violate free expression of one’s human rights which are not just relinquished because some people believed right or their removal is at the whims of some claimed god (human rights removing/limiting/controlling = ANTIHUMANISM). Humanism to me, summed up as, humans solving human problems through human means. Thus, humanism thinking involves striving to do good without gods, and not welcoming the human rights removing/limiting/controlling, even if the myths could somehow come to be true.
Stop Promoting Errors in Thinking like gods
Theists seem to have very odd attempts as logic, as they most often start with some evidence devoid god myth they favor most often the hereditary favorite of the family or culture that they were born into so a continuous blind acceptance generation after generation of force indicated faith in that which on clear instinctually honest appraisal not only should inspire doubt but full disbelief until valid and reliable justification is offered.
I Hear Theists?
I hear what theists say and what I hear is that they make assertions with no justification discernable of or in reality just some book and your evidence lacking faith. I wish you were open to see but I know you have a wish to believe. I, however, wish to welcome reality as it is devoid of magic which all religions and gods thinkers believe. I want to be mentally free from misinformed ancient myths and free the minds of those confused in the realm of myths and the antihumanism views that they often attach to. So, I do have an agenda human liberation from fears of the uninformed conception of reality.
No god Claims have Justification, Challenge?
“Damien, (responding to me saying no god claims have justification) there are problems thinking everything you believe needs a justification.” – Challenger
My response, so, are you saying something can be claimed as real but have no warrant to justify why one should agree or even entertain it?
“The idea that Induction is reliable can be claimed and seems like an important assumption, but arguments for it are fallacious. There are similar issues with thinking an external world exists.” – Challenger
My response, ok, and how do we discern any of it, if nothing has a need for justification? Because to me, I see your saying something is fallacious as asserting a justification stance and thus, is similar to what I think, which is valid, that there is a rationalistic need for justification. You are telling me I am wrong and that needs a justification, just as me showing your thinking wrong took a justification. If not then tell me how I am wrong utilizing no justification at all. So, try to prove me wrong because even if you do you will have provided a justification so then further proving my assertion of the need for justification.
Do you know god?
“Damien, God exists go to YouTube and type in Dr.Dino u will understand.”- Challenger
“What is a god and how do you know some claim about that concept is real?” – Damien Marie Athope
“How can u believe that a spinning created life and I also wonder why we don’t see people evolve now days can u observe evolution”- Challenger
“You have no responce? Exactly.”- Challenger
“What do you think you did? You did nothing at all to demonstrate magic was, real, did you? NO. Again, what is a god?”
Animistic superstition origins of bible god.
El-Shaddai is the claimed original name of bible god Exodus 6:2 it occurs 48 times in the bible 42 of which in the patriarchal period, but which animistic mountain superstition is this god attributed to? Here are a few mountains/hills of bible god: Mount Zion-Psalms 132:13; Mount Sinai-Exodus 19; Mount Horeb-1 Kings 19:8; Mount Paran- Habakkuk 3:3; Mount Hor- Numbers 20:22-29. More animistic superstition origins of bible god as an earthquake: Judges 5:5 – mountains quaked at the presence of Yahweh; Isaiah 64:1- mountains might quake at Your presence; The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; Psalm 18:7 – The earth trembled and quaked, and the mountains shook trembled because god was angry; Nahum 1:5-6 – Mountains quake because of god and the hills dissolve, who can endure god’s anger; Isaiah 64:3 You did awesome things which we did not expect, You came down, the mountains quaked at Your presence; Habakkuk 3:10 the mountains saw god and quaked.
Bible Believer Challenge
“Damien I am a Christian because the evidence supports the gospel (bible) as being objectively true.” – Challenger
My response, wait, are you saying there is evidence of magic or supernatural? I think not, so it’s still belief built of wishful thinking supported by the confusion of looking through an indoctrinated religious mind bent on belief not truth. And I must question your trust in worthy compared to unworthy evidence standard for your source like the gospels. Was it not this reality confused gospel, that said the sun stopped one as well as how there was light on the earth before the sun and the moon were claimed to have been created which was not until the fourth day if I remember right as well as referencing pillars of the earth also expressing that the World is Flat. And what really is a god?
*I hear all the time but did you read the bible?*
Read the bible, you mean the book of dogmatic propaganda. Yes, sadly I have. I read two versions of the bible, the King James and the NIV. I have read history, anthropology and archeology of world religions and understood right thinking because of philosophy. I know a lot, I don’t claim to know everything but certainly enough to firmly know religion and gods are myths. I could list countless scriptures to contradict the bible’s credibility (it has none) as I have listed some but true believers will believe as they wish (blind faith). The male god is an invented idea no more than 5,000 years the female goddess at least 12,000 but the first worship was and the world’s oldest ritual was of a large stone python 70,000 years ago.
You say you believe in a possibility of your favored god-claim?
Okay, let’s think through what you claim to believe, if you think there is a possibility of your god-claim existing as something in reality, then there would also have be, to YOU, I am guessing, a possibility of every other god claim in recorded history being possible? I assume by your single-possibility-god-claim that you don’t think all god-claims are possible with the same level of equality in the amount of possibility, do you? That’s even ridiculous to you as a single-possibility-god believer, right? But hold on, wouldn’t that require YOU, I am guessing, as a single-possibility-god believer, to reject believing in any equal possibility of any possible gods, as that would be ridiculous, because they need evidence, right? But hold on, wouldn’t that require YOU, I am guessing, as a single-possibility-god believer, who also like the gods you reject out of hand, also lack any evidence but empty assertions, a single-possibility-god, right? But that is no different than the god-claim you favor belief in, which is a claimed-god-something seen as if it is possible, yet it too is a claim without any evidence. But hold on, wouldn’t not believing in things without evidence, be better?
Well, not believing in things without evidence, is exactly why I don’t believe any gods, including one you may favor. Believing in things without evidence, like all god-claims, are like magical thinking child’s play, believing any of them is empty intellectual confusion, as to believe without evidence, is uncritical thinking, foolishness like hiding from imaginary shadows thinking they can hurt you.
You have to agree, there is a possibility of god?
No, possibility, my friend, is not a thing in isolation; as in one needs a frame of reference or there is no possibility to discern anything to attach a possibility to. Without a frame of reference, all you have is just an uncalculated and unknown communicated claim with no relevance or attributed properties to assert. We need to think deep and broad to see many things missed. This reality itself requires a belief, in many presuppositions like there is reality, I the thinker, am actually in control of my thinking, that this thinking is rational and that what I observe is real and corresponds to that real reality, I am an active agent awake and not dreaming this is mostly an internal awareness in confrontation in how I interact with it. We can bypass this and say we don’t believe it but we all actively relate in the world so it is valid to believe.
The Rationalist Desire for Epistemically Credible Thinking
As a rationalist when I debate or challenge a position or thinking I want the epistemically provable truth, as I am not only closed to my own ideas, rather, I am just as willing to adapt my position if given strong warrant or justification supported by valid and reliable reason and evidence with epistemic credibility.
“Incorporating a prediction into future planning and decision making is advisable only if we have judged the prediction’s credibility. This is notoriously difficult and controversial in the case of predictions of future climate. By reviewing epistemic arguments about climate model performance, we discuss how to make and justify judgments about the credibility of climate predictions. Possibly proposing arguments that justify basing some judgments on the past performance of possibly dissimilar prediction problems. This encourages a more explicit use of data in making quantitative judgments about the credibility of future climate predictions, and in training users of climate predictions to become better judges of value, goodness, credibility, accuracy, worth or usefulness.” Ref
Stop believing in supernatural and be honest in the wonderment of natural reality as it truly is.
Supernatural is our minds animating reality because it is beyond our understanding. That lack of grasping and accepting reality as it is does not change it into anything more than it should be. It only shows how profoundly human emotionalism can lead us to conceptual error when allowed to invade our method of knowledge acquisition. For us to finally grasp the amazing facts of reality (naturalism which is proven) we must stop the false beliefs (supernatural which is disproven) holding us back from doing so.
Stop the insecurity of wanting or needing to believe in the possibility of magic.
I see all magical thinking “religious belief” and doubting or rejecting the magical thinking “atheistic disbelief” and stating a possibility of magical thinking being real “agnostic belief”.
Allowing that magical thinking or the possibility of magical thinking being real is clearly not supported by any facts in reality. Thus, it is just more a social engineering “indoctrinated belief” connected to learned magical thinking supernaturalism and/or superstitionism.
When asked whether they believe in the existence of one or more Gods and/or Goddesses, Theists will answer in the affirmative; strong Atheists will say no.
Agnostics often cannot give a straight “Yes” or “No” answer. Agnostics might respond with one of the following (Weak Theism or Weak Atheism):
Weak Atheism: I don’t know. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: The Gods that various believers worship are like unicorns: they are obviously fictional creations of humanity. But, who knows. They might actually exist.
Weak Atheism: There is no way to know, but perhaps someone will find a proof or disproof in the future. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: There will never be any way to know. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: The question is meaningless. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: I don’t know but will lead my life in the assumption that no God exists. (So they dont believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: I cannot give an opinion because there is no way that we can prove the existence or non-existence of God given currently available knowledge. (So they dont believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: I cannot give an opinion because there is no way to know, with certainty, anything about God, either now or in the future. (So they dont believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Atheism: I will have to withhold my opinion until God, if he exists, decides to make his presence known. Rearranging, say, 10,000 stars in the sky to read “I AM” would be a great start. Even recreating an amputated leg would be a strong indicator. But, of course, neither has ever happened. (So they dont believe theism thus are atheists)
Weak Theism: I doubt it, but cannot be sure God doesn’t exist.
Weak Theism: I think so, but cannot be positive that God exists.
Weak Theism: I don’t know but will lead my life assuming that God does exist — perhaps because of the rewards I would receive if God does exist.
Weak Theism: I think that God exists, but have no proof.
Weak Theism: I worship a god (or a god and goddess, or a goddess, or some combination of god(s) and goddess(es) but cannot prove that they exist.
Weak Theism: Yes, God exists. But we do not know anything about God at this time.
Weak Theism: Yes, God exists. But we have no possibility of knowing anything about God, now or in the future.
The god “magic” is a Non-Sequitur
A hypothetical god(s) “magic” offered as a reason for a known aspect of naturalism such as saying, “there is so much beauty in nature, there must be a god” is a Non-Sequitur. Which is belter understood as “there is so much beauty in nature, there must be supernatural ‘magic’.” Hearing the god “magic” claim for what it is truly saying helps expose that it is a logical fallacy of Non-Sequitur. This term Non-Sequitur translates to “doesn’t follow”. This refers to an argument in which the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premises. In other words, a logical connection is implied where none exists.
So, the saying there must be a non-natural god hypnosis because nature is beautiful, is demonstrating a logical conflict why would anyone have to think because nature is beautiful god “magic” must exist? If nature wasn’t beautiful would they say this was evidence a devil existed? Since they say both a god and devil exist should nature be less beautiful? Is nature as a whole truly beautiful? Think of all death and harm from earthquakes, tidal waves, floods, rip currents, coastal erosion, avalanches, mud slides, lightning, wildfires, erupting volcanoes, drought, hurricanes, tornados, disease, decay, and extreme weather freezing cold or sweltering heat. The world is cruel, pitiless and has a harmful ugly side so maybe nature is not so beautiful after all and you just only want to see the good side just like you only want to see a possibility for your magical god. Supersessionism is the Mother of Supernaturalism, thus Religion is its child.
How does superstitious and magical thinking conform or limit how faith introduces religious and sacralizing thinking particularly on the concept of gods?
Faith hurts itself as it desires to build on its self which only serve to topple the stack of cards it invents to shore it up trying to create more faith. Thus, faith will always involve a willingness to not understand and offer this as a kind of evidence. True believers are utilizing faith as a product to conceive the true concept of gods are then left saying “faith is beyond reason thus with such reasonless faith in god nothing is impossible”, “you must trust in faith and believe even if it contradicts reason in order that you may understand”, Or the believer will say something like “I believe in faith in order that I might understand and make sense of god.”
Let’s look how that plays out in the bible: 1 Corinthians 2:5 your faith might not rest on human wisdom; Proverbs 3:5 don’t lean not on your own understanding; Hebrews 11:1 faith is the substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen; Proverbs 1:7 fear of god is the beginning of knowledge.
Gods need to be well defined to be understood however the more they are defined the more problematic abilities come into thoughtful challenge because their unattainable complexities comes into play defying reason. Yet on the other end if gods are simply left undefined they are meaningless or cease as being able to hold reason as be usable as god concepts. I surmise that gods are supernatural agents which are early humans created that started as spirits forces whom where wholly lacking developed formal structure and the substance in beingness. It is this unconfirmed or limiting spirits forces concept of gods that comprise this emerging container unit which the mysterious elements of nature could be put in. But as increasingly higher thinking beings evolve who likewise kept gaining more awareness of the discernable patterns of the mysterious elements of nature attributed as involving spirits forces then to be used managed and understood to keep faith needed to be defined more. So early humans made their spirits forces which had before been undefined lacking beingness or contained no full unit of beingness into which the needed knowable source or like us anthropomorphic spirits forces details could involve reason. But the more this container unit comprising spirits forces which lack understanding morphed into more complex concepts of goddesses then gods it the less the reason it entails.
Thus, superstitious and magical thinking commonly evolves from unorganized conceptions and then overtime grouped together turning into organized forms often denoting some amount of anthropomorphism. This, anthropomorphism though unrealized are what faith needs to create concepts found in what we refer to as religious thinking and the existence of supernatural agents like gods which require anthropomorphic to be thought as even being real. Some may try to challenge whether in “their” conceptions of religion and their creator deity is anthropomorphic (i.e. exhibits human characteristics; such as seen in in the phrase god is a jealous god Exodus 20:5). Moreover, this fact of an undeniable anthropomorphic connection found in all creator deities even in their most ethereal forms can be easily addressed, for instance if you say the “unknown/unknowable” origins of the universe involves an “it” something with a beingness or “I-ness” (like an actual being) in some form which then reasonably can be seen as denoting some amount of anthropomorphism. A problematic reason involved issue this beingness god with anthropomorphic attributes entails is how it evokes a limited realm of personality in which is fixed in time, space, and place. But to do so then makes the anthropomorphic god becomes in some way corporeal (that is, material and natural not supernatural) within its association with beingness.
However, if we try to sidestep this problem and think in terms of a non-beingness god or non-anthropomorphic concept of god such a creator deity becomes a blind power present in uncountable ways. Thus undefinable and an “unknown/unknowable” thing which possibly could be labelled a force which lacks all beingness but where would that leave us? Even if we then buy this creator deity concept of a force which can somehow lacking all beingness thus is a non-being of anti-anthropomorphic blind power we would seem to be left accepting a creator deity who entailed an expression of nothingness or “unknown/unknowable” presence. How then could this still be attributed as being a thing with somethingness?
Does such a nothing or non-defined entity such as this simply through logic ceases to exist as a reasonable conception that is allowed to be referred to as god? Can thoughts about the direction of a creator force with purpose be any more demonstrable or ascertainably different than our notions of purposeless direction (i.e. I say the wind is a purposeless natural force whereas gods are often attributed as being the force of purpose in wind; such as the phrases god made a wind blow and the waters subsided Genesis 8:1; god brought an east wind and with it came the locusts Exodus 10:13; god drove the sea back by a strong east wind all night, and made the sea dry land Exodus 14:21-22)? Let us assume that a deity is ultimately an indirect reference to anthropomorphism which is found in the proposal of god which involves the absolute infinite beingness; thus, the quality of omnipotence (i.e. it can do everything it wants to).
Omnipotence would logically be needed for a being or force of creation in that to be an all-powerful designer of the said universe a power beyond any another would reasonably be required. But if this designer of the universe is an all-powerful and infinite thing is thus is being attributed to an unbound possibility of actions which creates an omnipotence paradox. Such as could a said infinite creator being or force be able to destroy itself or deny its own existence? If the deity or force is omnipotent it can destroy itself, or deny its own existence but an infinite being cannot be eliminated by definition which creates a contradiction.
gOD Believer, Pease Think Critically
If you are a believer think critically, it is not the one deity you see as possible without evidence but to notice how many gods or goddesses you reject as impossible without evidence. What kind of thinker can believe that rationally? There are literally thousands of religions being practiced today and many others once were once thought true in history just to be reworked or rejected.
The world’s 20 largest religions and their number of believers are:
Christianity (2.1 billion)
Islam (1.3 billion)
Nonreligious (Secular/Agnostic/Atheist) (1.1 billion)
Hinduism (900 million)
Chinese traditional religion (394 million)
Buddhism 376 million
Primal-indigenous (300 million)
African traditional and Diasporic (100 million)
Sikhism (23 million)
Juche (19 million)
Spiritism (15 million)
Judaism (14 million)
Bahai (7 million)
Jainism (4.2 million)
Shinto (4 million)
Cao Dai (4 million)
Zoroastrianism (2.6 million)
Tenrikyo (2 million)
Neo-Paganism (1 million)
Unitarian-Universalism (800,000) [Ref]
If you can believe only in a possible God of Christianity, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Lord Buddha, Waheguru, Ngame, Isis, Kali, Brigid, Kuan Yin, Europa, Aphrodite, Amaterasu, Aurora, Chicomecoatl, Ishtar, Antares, and all of the thousands of other gods or goddess that other people worship today or once held faith in. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods or goddesses without ever looking into their history, religions, reading or even learning about them. You may not even know some of the names listed or have heard much about them or the thousands of other deities and mythical beings people now or through time have put faith in. Most people believer or agnostic are singly indoctrinated all their life and simply have absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in, thus you now see only it as the only possible truth. In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject god or goddesses without reading or even learning about them as well and as many believers put faith over scientific facts. If you are a believer or agnostic only your possibility is true and you think their gods are imaginary, similarly they think you’re god or goddess is imaginary. In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods or goddesses as imaginary. A rational person armed with history, science, psychology, sociology, biology, and archeology rejects all human gods or goddess myths equally, because all of them are equally human inventions. How do we know that they are human inventions? Show me a claimed god that is not limited to having to be promoted by people, only transferred by people who were told about this brand of god or it stays unknown or stops being known when it stops being talked about.
“Sounds like these claimed all-powerful gods are not any power at all, instead they are universally limited and as fragile as any lie, you know just stop telling a gOD lie and it stops existing.”
These gOD myths like all myths not only must be told and retold by humans to other humans they suffer another weakness all myths share in that they tend to be changed or altered as they are retold. Some say not my god (let’s say Christians) but this is a pure delusion and undeserved self-confidence as the over 40,000 sects and denominations as well as the many different translations of one book the bible which easily has over 100 versions in English alone. And even using the same translation people differ how they view or believe the myth of the bible god, you can see why now right because it is only a myth that is limited to being believed and being told. Still not convinced all gods are lies even the one god myth you may like or believe you choose or chose “more likely where raised in and forced to believe” then stop telling people about it and see if it keeps going as always gods have no more power than the believer gives them. God myths are weak and fragile simply stop believing in them and stop talking about them and they stop existing. Just think what claimed god if real requires you to talk about it or it stops being known. What real features of the world stop existing just because we stop talking about them or stop believing in them? Simply imagine that one of these god myths was actually real it would automatically be real not limited to being expressed to stay seen as real. We know that all gods are myths, as if one of these thousands of mythic gods were actually real, then its believers would be experiencing real, undeniable benefits. These undeniable benefits would not only be obvious to everyone they could be testable and demonstrable limited only to some the believers in the one claimed real god. But spoiler alert no such evidence exists, not that it’s a real shocker as all gods are myths. That right there is no special anything followers of a claimed one true god have others don’t have but an odd belief in a God myth as true when there is no proof of such claims not even in the lives of the ones doing the claiming. Because if some myth god was real couldn’t we at least see actual proof in the lives of the ones believing that only occurred in the lives of the believers and was testable and demonstrable like have fewer diseases, or more so-called blessings like more money, etc. In fact, is a belief in a god meant anything at all there would be and I say must be, testable and demonstrable proofs directly connected to or special attributions only surrounding the lives followers of some claimed true god or it’s just not anything true. I know if you are a believer in some claimed god you may defensibly say well even if there is not any testable or demonstrable proofs you still should believe as you don’t want to go to hell if you are wrong, to which we all should say and that works for you? As in what a bunch of nonsense and simple reasoning supported only by fear. Stop this unjustified fear and live life free.
“Stop believing in supernatural or the possibility of magic or other supernaturalism nonsense, stop belief in gOD!”
Yes, I proudly reject gods and religions
It should be understood, that religion as well as its love of gods, must be seem for what they are, which beyond their pomp and circumstance are exposed as little more than indoctrinated cultural products, the conspiracy theories of reality no one should believe today in our world of science. Simply, religion and its gods are the leftovers of an ignorant age trying to explain and control a fearful world which seems now favored by the uninformed, misinformed, emotional/physical/social support seekers and conmen.
Dealing with theists?
When dealing with theists we atheists should ask “What is our goal,” as this very important to me and beyond a call for truth over lies I wish positive kindness over a negative hatred already too prevalent in the world. So, what happens if theists don’t ever change? What is more important, what they believe in made up magic or how they behave? If behavior is “true” which is real, unlike myths that are not, are we atheists more situated to demonstrate ethical and kind behavior? I strive all the time to re-guide my behavior so it better matches what is worthy.
While hallucinogens are associated with shamanism, it is alcohol that is associated with paganism.
The Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries Shows in the prehistory series:
Show six: Emergence of hierarchy, sexism, slavery, and the new male god dominance: Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves!
Show eight: Paganism 4,000 years old: Moralistic gods after the rise of Statism and often support Statism/Kings: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism)
Prehistory: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” the division of labor, power, rights, and recourses: VIDEO
Pre-animism 300,000 years old and animism 100,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Totemism 50,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Shamanism 30,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Paganism 12,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Pre-Capitalism): VIDEO
Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves: VIEDO
Paganism 5,000 years old: progressed organized religion and the state: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Kings and the Rise of the State): VIEDO
Paganism 4,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism): VIEDO
I do not hate simply because I challenge and expose myths or lies any more than others being thought of as loving simply because of the protection and hiding from challenge their favored myths or lies.
The truth is best championed in the sunlight of challenge.
An archaeologist once said to me “Damien religion and culture are very different”
My response, So are you saying that was always that way, such as would you say Native Americans’ cultures are separate from their religions? And do you think it always was the way you believe?
I had said that religion was a cultural product. That is still how I see it and there are other archaeologists that think close to me as well. Gods too are the myths of cultures that did not understand science or the world around them, seeing magic/supernatural everywhere.
I personally think there is a goddess and not enough evidence to support a male god at Çatalhöyük but if there was both a male and female god and goddess then I know the kind of gods they were like Proto-Indo-European mythology.
*Next is our series idea that was addressed in, Anarchist Teaching as Free Public Education or Free Education in the Public: VIDEO
Our future video series: Organized Oppression: Mesopotamian State Force and the Politics of power (9,000-4,000 years ago) adapted from: The Complete and Concise History of the Sumerians and Early Bronze Age Mesopotamia (7000-2000 BC): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFjxmY7jQA
The “Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries”
Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ Atheist Leftist @Skepticallefty & I (Damien Marie AtHope) @AthopeMarie (my YouTube & related blog) are working jointly in atheist, antitheist, antireligionist, antifascist, anarchist, socialist, and humanist endeavors in our videos together, generally, every other Saturday.
Why Does Power Bring Responsibility?
Think, how often is it the powerless that start wars, oppress others, or commit genocide? So, I guess the question is to us all, to ask, how can power not carry responsibility in a humanity concept? I know I see the deep ethical responsibility that if there is power their must be a humanistic responsibility of ethical and empathic stewardship of that power. Will I be brave enough to be kind? Will I possess enough courage to be compassionate? Will my valor reached its height of empathy? I as everyone earns our justified respect by our actions, that are good, ethical, just, protecting, and kind. Do I have enough self-respect to put my love for humanity’s flushing, over being brought down by some of its bad actors? May we all be the ones doing good actions in the world, to help human flourishing.
I create the world I want to live in, striving for flourishing. Which is not a place but a positive potential involvement and promotion; a life of humanist goal precision. To master oneself, also means mastering positive prosocial behaviors needed for human flourishing. I may have lost a god myth as an atheist but I am happy to tell you my friend, it is exactly because of that, leaving the mental terrorizer, god belief that I truly regained my connected ethical as well as kind humanity.
Cory and I will talk about prehistory and theism, addressing the relevance to atheism, anarchism, and socialism.
At the same time of the rise of the male god 7,000 years ago was also the very time there was the rise of violence war, and clans to kingdoms, then empires, then states. It is all connected back to 7,000 years ago and it mover across the world.
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist (YouTube)
Cory Johnston: Mind of a Skeptical Leftist @Skepticalcory
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist By Cory Johnston: “Promoting critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics by covering current events and talking to a variety of people. Cory Johnston has been thoughtfully talking to people and attempting to promote critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics.”
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Damien Marie AtHope (“At Hope”) Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist. Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Poet, Philosopher, Advocate, Activist, Psychology, and Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Historian.
Damien is interested in: Freedom, Liberty, Justice, Equality, Ethics, Humanism, Science, Atheism, Antiteism, Antireligionism, Ignosticism, Left-Libertarianism, Anarchism, Socialism, Mutualism, Axiology, Metaphysics, LGBTQI, Philosophy, Advocacy, Activism, Mental Health, Psychology, Archaeology, Social Work, Sexual Rights, Marriage Rights, Woman’s Rights, Gender Rights, Child Rights, Secular Rights, Race Equality, Ageism/Disability Equality, Etc. And a far-leftist, “Anarcho-Humanist.”
Damien Marie AtHope (Said as “At” “Hope”)/(Autodidact Polymath but not good at math):
Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist, Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Jeweler, Poet, “autodidact” Philosopher, schooled in Psychology, and “autodidact” Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Pre-Historian (Knowledgeable in the range of: 1 million to 5,000/4,000 years ago). I am an anarchist socialist politically. Reasons for or Types of Atheism