Was the Value of Ancient Women Different? YES

Damien Marie AtHope’s Art

ref, ref, ref 

Goddesses / Archetype ancestor shapes relating to the three realms and moon phases: Waxing, Full, and Waning Moon: As well as relating to Heaven, Earth, and Underworld. The figure with the arms up likely represents both bull horns and the worship and parse/dancing for the heavens. It seemingly relates to different functions with different meanings but I think are all part of a widespread gatherer cult/farming paganism cult magic by shamanistic paganism.

In the picture above is a reference to the larger theme in connection with what I see as the farming paganistic Goddess cult concepts and as stated before relating to the three realms: heaven (I assumed goddess figure arms up from the Badarian culture with the earliest direct evidence of agriculture in Upper Egypt during the Predynastic Era), earth (I assumed pre-goddess archetype ancestor figure in hunter-gather shamanism Magdalenian with links to both Iberomaurusians and connections to the First Paganists or arms around the body or little to no arms), and the last the underworld (I assumed goddess figure arms down: a Badarian culture female mortuary figurine).

Venus of Courbet figure is one of many similar abstract sitting position women figurines and the oldest listed above to me is a pre-goddess expression of the mother goddesses that are more fully developed in response to the new social demands seen in the neolithic expressions of culture or full moon representation and moon references stretch back to Venus of Courbet found at one of the three sites of Courbet, Bruniquel and Montastruc, which are all very close to each other, and are often treated as a single site. The Roc du Courbet is one of a series of Upper Palaeolithic rock shelters near the village of Bruniquel, in France‘s Tarn region. It is believed that the majority of the remains recovered were derived from de Lastic’s black layer or ‘couche noire’, which is thought to date to Magdalenian V or VI.

However, the provenance of remains within this layer is not clear. Furthermore, both human and animal remains were found within not only a black layer (‘limon noir’), but also a red layer (‘limon rouge’) and a breccia deposit. The piece was excavated from Courbet Cave, Montastruc, Tarn-et-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France with a sitting posture figure outlined om it dated to around 13 000 years ago, locally the Late Magdalenian period of the Upper Palaeolithic, towards the end of the last Ice Age. The headless figure is shown from the side, bending to the right, with the large rounded buttocks and thigh carefully drawn. The thin torso features a small sharp triangle that may indicate the breasts, or perhaps arms held out and on the legs.

Similar to The Venus figures of Neuchâtel – Monruz as well as The Venus figures of Petersfels (Engen). One of the last and smallest Venus Figurines to be carved during the era of Paleolithic art, the Venus of Monruz (also known as the “Venus of Neuchatel” or the “Venus of Neuchatel–Monruz“) is a pendant made of black jet, in the shape of a stylized female body in a sitting posture with an engorged buttocks and no arms. It was discovered in Switzerland. It is among the world’s oldest items of jewellery art, and exemplifies prehistoric sculpture created during the final phase of Magdalenian art, which ended 12,000-10,000 years ago. The Monruz venus bears a strong resemblance to the Venus of Engen (“Frauenidol von Engen”), one of a dozen jet pendants excavated from the shelter of Petersfels (Baden-Wurtemberg), in Germany, except that the Engen figurine is dated to 15,000 years ago. Another jet figurine is the Venus of Pekarna, which dates to 14,500 years ago. The Magdalenian was the richest period of prehistoric art, notably in the craft of cave painting, although it also witnessed exceptional sculptures like the Venus of Eliseevichi. ref, ref

I dont totally agree with these articles but it’s very informative:

Function of Predynastic Female Figurines from the Badarian to the Late Naqada II Periods (Honours Thesis, Monash University, 2013)

Supernatural Pregnancies Common Features and New Ideas concerning Upper Paleolithic Feminine Imagery Duncan Caldwell

A Study Of Anthropomorphic Figurines In The Neolithic

“In the Neolithic, figurines largely appear at a time when human cultures were going through significant and critical changes, so significant and critical that the period has often been referred to as the “Neolithic revolution.” These figurines do not appear in every Neolithic society but seem to be common to a great many. Nor do they appear continuously through time in each culture where they are found. Agriculture and sedentism begin to replace the lifeways of the hunter-gatherer nomads, and some of the earliest clear examples of public architecture and ceremonial gatherings begin to show up in the material records of such places as Nevalı Çori, Göbekli Tepe and Çatalhöyük. Prior to the invention of writing, symbols and signs appear in the archaeological record in the form of pictographs, petroglyphs, murals, pottery designs, and figurines. These artifacts are among the precious few sources of information about cultures long dead before the advent of writing.” ref

“The Neolithic periods of Southwest Asia and Southeastern Europe total at least 403 anthropomorphic figurines, around 11,000 to 4,300 years ago, 148 (36.7%) were from sites in Southwest Asia and 255 (63.3%) were from sites in Southeastern Europe mostly of terracotta and stone, a disproportionate number of figurines are representative of the female sex compared to male as well as that asexual-figurines are also equally disproportionate. Although most Neolithic societies may have differences among the many commonalities that these cultures shared are small portable figurines of terracotta and, sometimes, stone. Anthropomorphic figurines are recovered in a variety of archaeological contexts, many of which can be clearly defined as domestic, burial, and ritual. In Bulgaria and Moldavia, for instance, figurines are frequently found in association with Neolithic cemeteries. Neolithic figurines filled a variety of roles which included rituals for curing, protection, initiation, and marriage, as well as to support oral narratives.” ref

“Anthropomorphic figurines are also very striking examples of Neolithic artifacts that have the potential to act as external symbolic storage. The quality of individual identity within Chalcolithic Bulgarian settlements by analyzing figurines within burials. Offers five methods of decoration: incising, piercing, painting, piercing and painting, and non-decoration, and sexual identities in the figurines excavated: female (69%), male (less than 1%) and asexual (31%) thus probably multi-sexual and multi-gendered culture. Most male figurines dominated the cemeteries and female figurines prevailed in the domestic spaces, a significant presence of asexual figurines were found throughout the Neolithic and Chalcolithic.” ref

“Many figurines express obesity and while obesity is definitely represented in the archaeological records of Neolithic cultures, the discontinuity between the obesity in figurines found at Çatalhöyük and the body types excavated. To date, no clear evidence has been discovered that would indicate a body was that of an obese or robust person. The mortuary data retrieved thus far from Çatalhöyük are far from conclusive and at least one case of a burial “special treatment” could exist of a person that was obese.” ref

“The Neolithic in Southeastern Europe begins by many accounts (e.g., Talalay at around 8,500 years ago). In southern Greece and the Aegean, a large corpus of anthropomorphic figurines emerge in many places beginning around this time in the regions of Thessaly and Central Greece, Macedonia, and Crete. The region of Greece that has, to date, produced the most Neolithic figurines. The Sesklo culture in Thessaly at Dimini Sesklo and Achilleion. Notably, Sesklo figurines share many attributes with those of the Near East, such as seated posture, conical shaped heads, and coffee-bean or cowrie-shaped eyes.” ref

“North of Greece, the Karanovo culture begins in the Eastern Balkan region at about 7,800 years ago and figurines produced are marked by “focus[ed] attention on faces and hips, buttocks and the pubis”. In the Central Balkans,theVinča Complex begins around 7,265 and the figurines from this culture are very striking with distinctive triangular, mask-like faces, detailed incisions, and symmetrical perforations. Several other regions in Southeastern Europe also provide a rich body of distinct anthropomorphic figurine styles. The Tisza culture in Hungary emerged during the Late Neolithic (around 6,970-6,380 years ago), the Cucuteni culture in modern Romania and Moldavia flourished from around. 6,800-5,500 years ago.” ref

“And closer to the Adriatic but still on the Balkan Peninsula, the Butmir culture is dated to around 7,300-6,200 years ago also in the Middle and Late Neolithic periods. Also considered to be within Southeastern Europe are the island sites of Malta and Sardinia. Malta was first settled by Neolithic farmers around 7,000 years ago and through the Final Neolithic, the island produced a rich body of figurines modeled in clay or carved from stone and bone. Malone notes that current evidence supports the idea that Sardinia was occupied continuously from the Mesolithic to the Early Neolithic which began on the island around 7,230 years ago. The figurines of Sardinia are more likely to be carved of stone than modeled in clay and many are found carved from tuff, marble, alabaster, gypsum, and steatite.” ref

“It is also possible that the idea that figurines are not simply media that communicate messages or store information but also to express or be utilized as representations that have meanings that can change over time and vary from observer to observer. The mental representation of the figurine becomes the ideas and concepts held by the observer, likely influenced the figurine’s context as it was used in domestic, ritual, and ceremonial settings. Posture for most figurines is a central attribute though often one that includes a combination of limb positions. So while standing and seated are two very general descriptions of posture, the positions of limbs could define the figurine as seated with a left leg crossed over the right, legs folded underneath the figure, or even kneeling. Figurines, of course, do not have an agency that is independent of humans.” ref

“Southeastern Europe contributed a more diverse and dispersed set of sites to the corpus, with a majority of 73 (18.1%) originating from sites in Romania. Other significant contributors were sites in the regions of Bulgaria (34 figurines at 8.4%), Central Greece (23figurines at 5.7%), Sardinia (23 figurines at 5.7%), Serbia (22 figurines at 5.6%), Malta (21figurines at 5.2%), and the Peloponnese of Greece (19 figurines at 4.7%). Other contributing sites were in the regions of Kosovo (10 figurines at 2.5%), Hungary (9 figurines at 2.2%), Bosnia(9 figurines at 2.2%), and then Crete, Macedonia, and Moldavia (each with 3 figurines at 0.7%). A single contributing Neolithic figurine was from Italy which was 0.3% of the corpus.” ref

“A male figurine from Nevalı Çori dating to between 10,500 and 9,900 years ago that appears to be wearing a belt or sash around the hips that may have a leopard design. This stylistic motif is similar to that of the somewhat younger design associated with an anthropomorphic figure in a mural at Çatalhöyük also of a male(s) (which could represent a hunting cult).
If their creators fashioned figurines to represent bodies they knew best, then many or most of the creators may have been female since figurines that are clearly male represent a small percentage of the corpus but what would it mean in relation to the very high percentage of asexual figurines in the Neolithic, (could mean trans/intersex people or that they were for use by several male and female individuals, or diverse gendered duties, maybe a little of both?).” ref

The often largely forgotten Gender Fluidity in the Goddesses and Gods

“Many cultures have gods, demi-gods, and heroes with both male and female attributes. In Hindu mythology, Shiva is seduced by Vishnu’s female avatar, Mohini, giving birth to the god Shasta (Ayyappa). Shiva himself is often represented as Ardhanarishvara, an androgynous composite of Shiva and Parvati with a body that is male on the right-hand side and female on the left. Arjuna, the great warrior of the Mahabharata epic, spent a year as a woman, during which he took the name of Brihannala and taught song and dance to the princess Uttara.” ref

“The Mesopotamian Ishtar, the beautiful goddess of fertility, love, war, and sex, is sometimes represented with a beard to emphasize her more bellicose side. She could change a man into a woman, and the assinnu, kurgarru, and kuku’u who performed her cult had both male and female features. After the hero Gilgamesh rejected her offer of marriage, Ishtar unleashed the Bull of Heaven, ultimately leading to the death of Enkidu, whom Gilgamesh loved more than anyone: “Hear me, great ones of Uruk/ I weep for Enkidu, my friend/ Bitterly mourning like a woman mourning.” ref

“Hapi, the Egyptian god of the annual flooding of the Nile, brought such fertility as to be regarded by some as the father of the gods: he is generally depicted as intersex, with pendulous breasts and a ceremonial false beard.
To seduce the nymph Callisto, Zeus, the king of the Greek gods, took the form of the goddess Artemis.” ref

Ten Intersex Goddesses and Gods

“Many cultures have had religions and beliefs that feature human-like gods and goddesses, most of them being specifically male or female. However, for some, creation and fertility was not always a female feature, and many concepts of nature and the universe could only be explained from a dipole perspective. Sometimes, being intersex was a result of magical or mysterious events. 1. Hermaphroditus (Greek), 2. Agdistis (Phrygian, Greek, Roman), 3.“Hapi (Egyptian), 4. Ardhanarishvara (Hindu), 5. Lan Caihe (China), 6. Ymir (Norse), 7. Ometeotl (Aztec), 8. Jehovah (Hermetic Kabbalah), 9. Phanes (Greek), and Ahsonnutli (Navaho).” ref

Damien Marie AtHope’s Art

My thoughts on Religion Evolution with external links for more info:

• (Pre-Animism Africa mainly, but also Europe, and Asia at least 300,000 years ago), (Pre-Animism – Oxford Dictionaries)
• (Animism Africa around 100,000 years ago), (Animism – Britannica.com)
• (Totemism Europe around 50,000 years ago), (Totemism – Anthropology)
• (Shamanism Siberia around 30,000 years ago), (Shamanism – Britannica.com)
• (Paganism Turkey around 12,000 years ago), (Paganism – BBC Religion)
• (Progressed Organized Religion “Institutional Religion” Egypt around 5,000 years ago), (Ancient Egyptian Religion – Britannica.com)
• (CURRENT “World” RELIGIONS after 4,000 years ago) (Origin of Major Religions – Sacred Texts)
• (Early Atheistic Doubting at least by 2,600 years ago) (History of Atheism – Wikipedia)

“Religion is an Evolved Product” and Yes, Religion is Like Fear Given Wings…

Atheists talk about gods and religions for the same reason doctors talk about cancer, they are looking for a cure, or a firefighter talks about fires because they burn people and they care to stop them. We atheists too often feel a need to help the victims of mental slavery, held in the bondage that is the false beliefs of gods and the conspiracy theories of reality found in religions.

“Understanding Religion Evolution: Animism, Totemism, Shamanism, Paganism & Progressed organized religion”

Understanding Religion Evolution:

• Pre-Animism (at least 300,000 years ago)
• Animism (Africa: 100,000 years ago)
• Totemism (Europe: 50,000 years ago)
• Shamanism (Siberia: 30,000 years ago)
• Paganism (Turkey: 12,000 years ago)
• Progressed organized religion (Egypt: 5,000 years ago), (Egypt, the First Dynasty 5,150 years ago)
• CURRENT “World” RELIGIONS (after 4,000 years ago)
• Early Atheistic Doubting (at least by 2,600 years ago)

“An Archaeological/Anthropological Understanding of Religion Evolution”

It seems ancient peoples had to survived amazing threats in a “dangerous universe (by superstition perceived as good and evil),” and human “immorality or imperfection of the soul” which was thought to affect the still living, leading to ancestor worship. This ancestor worship presumably led to the belief in supernatural beings, and then some of these were turned into the belief in gods. This feeble myth called gods were just a human conceived “made from nothing into something over and over, changing, again and again, taking on more as they evolve, all the while they are thought to be special,” but it is just supernatural animistic spirit-belief perceived as sacred.

Quick Evolution of Religion?

Pre-Animism (at least 300,000 years ago) pre-religion is a beginning that evolves into later Animism. So, Religion as we think of it, to me, all starts in a general way with Animism (Africa: 100,000 years ago) (theoretical belief in supernatural powers/spirits), then this is physically expressed in or with Totemism (Europe: 50,000 years ago) (theoretical belief in mythical relationship with powers/spirits through a totem item), which then enlists a full-time specific person to do this worship and believed interacting Shamanism (Siberia/Russia: 30,000 years ago) (theoretical belief in access and influence with spirits through ritual), and then there is the further employment of myths and gods added to all the above giving you Paganism (Turkey: 12,000 years ago) (often a lot more nature-based than most current top world religions, thus hinting to their close link to more ancient religious thinking it stems from). My hypothesis is expressed with an explanation of the building of a theatrical house (modern religions development). Progressed organized religion (Egypt: 5,000 years ago)  with CURRENT “World” RELIGIONS (after 4,000 years ago).

Historically, in large city-state societies (such as Egypt or Iraq) starting around 5,000 years ago culminated to make religion something kind of new, a sociocultural-governmental-religious monarchy, where all or at least many of the people of such large city-state societies seem familiar with and committed to the existence of “religion” as the integrated life identity package of control dynamics with a fixed closed magical doctrine, but this juggernaut integrated religion identity package of Dogmatic-Propaganda certainly did not exist or if developed to an extent it was highly limited in most smaller prehistoric societies as they seem to lack most of the strong control dynamics with a fixed closed magical doctrine (magical beliefs could be at times be added or removed). Many people just want to see developed religious dynamics everywhere even if it is not. Instead, all that is found is largely fragments until the domestication of religion.

Religions, as we think of them today, are a new fad, even if they go back to around 6,000 years in the timeline of human existence, this amounts to almost nothing when seen in the long slow evolution of religion at least around 70,000 years ago with one of the oldest ritual worship. Stone Snake of South Africa: “first human worship” 70,000 years ago. This message of how religion and gods among them are clearly a man-made thing that was developed slowly as it was invented and then implemented peace by peace discrediting them all. Which seems to be a simple point some are just not grasping how devastating to any claims of truth when we can see the lie clearly in the archeological sites.

I wish people fought as hard for the actual values as they fight for the group/clan names political or otherwise they think support values. Every amount spent on war is theft to children in need of food or the homeless kept from shelter.

Here are several of my blog posts on history:

• To Find Truth You Must First Look
• Archaeology Knowledge Challenge?
• Beware of Pseudo-History like the Claims of a Hammer in a 400 Million-Year-Old Rock
• The Evolution of Fire Sacralizing and/or Worship 1.5 million to 300,000 years ago and beyond?
• Proto Religion: Superstition around 1 million years ago, to Pre-Animism 300,000 years ago, & then Animism Religion 100,000 years ago
• Stone Age Art: 500,000 – 233,000 Years Old
• Around 500,000 – 233,000 years ago, Oldest Anthropomorphic art (Pre-animism) is Related to Female
• 400,000 Years Old Sociocultural Evolution
• Burial-pits, Cave-tombs, and/or Shallow-graves begin with Homo
• The Emergence of Pre-Religion 300,000 years ago, with Pre-Animism?
• Pre-Animism: Portable Rock Art at least 300,000-year-old
• Pre-animism 300,000 years old and animism 100,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
• Prehistory: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” the division of labor, power, rights, and recourses.
• Homo Naledi and an Intentional Cemetery “Pre-Animism” dating to around 250,000 years ago?
• Neanderthals “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” Mystery Cave Rings 175,000 Years Ago
• 130,000 years ago – Earliest evidence for burial and it’s Neanderthals…
• Did Neanderthals teach us “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” 120,000 Years Ago?
• What about Neanderthals and Religion?
• Animism: an approximately 100,000-year-old belief system?
• Animism: a belief among some indigenous people, young children, or all religious people!
• The Origin of Language: Starts in Symbolism Around 100,000 years ago, to Early Proto-Writing 44,000-5,000 years ago with Unrealized Connections
• Rock crystal stone tools 75,000 Years Ago – (Spain) made by Neanderthals
• Prehistoric Child Burials Begin at Least Around 78,000 Years Ago
• Stone Snake of South Africa: “first human worship” 70,000 years ago
• Similarities and differences in Animism and Totemism
• Did Neanderthals Help Inspire Totemism? Because there is Art Dating to Around 65,000 Years Ago in Spain?
• History of Drug Use with Religion or Sacred Rituals possibly 58,000 years ago?
• Totemism: an approximately 50,000-year-old belief system?
• Totemism 50,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
• Australia & Aboriginal Religion at least around 50,000 years old
• Modern Humans start around 50,000 years ago Helped by Feminisation
• Out of Africa: “the evolution of religion seems tied to the movement of people”
• Totemism and Shamanism Dispersal Theory Expressed around 50,000 to 30,000 years ago
• Back-migrations to Africa, Starting with Eurasia to North Africa around 45,000 years ago
• Possible Religion Motivations in the First Cave Art at around 43,000 years ago?
• 43,000-33,000 years old Aurignacian Figurine Marks, like at the Swabian Jura caves in Germany
• 41,000-20,000-year-old Upper Paleolithic Tally sticks
• 40,000 years old Aurignacian Lion Figurine Early Totemism?
• 40,000-35,000 years ago “first seeming use of a Totem” ancestor, animal, and possible pre-goddess worship?
• Prehistoric Egypt 40,000 years ago to The First Dynasty 5,150 years ago
• 38,000 Years Old Engraving of an Aurochs with Seeming Totemism Expression?
• Aurignacian Period female ‘Venus’ carvings start at 35,000 years ago, then Transfer on to Other Cultures?
• Sacred Bulls, the Moon, and Fertility begins at least around 35,000 years ago?
• Women were the focus of religion, from at least around 35,000 years ago, until 2,000 years ago?
• Stars: Ancestors, Spirit Animals, and Deities (around 6,000 years ago, with connections to shamanism at 30,000 years ago and possibly further back to 40,000 years ago with totemism)
• Sacred Bulls, the Moon, and Fertility begins at least around 35,000 years ago?
• 34,000 years ago Lunar Calendar Cave art around the Time Shift From Totemism to Early Shamanism
• 34,000 years old Russan “Sungir” Early Totemistic-Shamanism
• 31,000-25,000 years old Dolni Vestonice, Czech Republic Totemistic-Shamanism
• Shamanism: an approximately 30,000-year-old belief system
• Could the Phallus Phenomena (A Bull Horn) and the Shamanism Phenomena beginning around 30,000 years ago
• Lenticular Cloud Formations may connect to Ancient “House of Gods” Mythology
• “Sky Burial” and its possible origins at least 12,000 years ago to likely 30,000 years ago or older.
• The Peopling of the Americas Pre-Paleoindians/Paleoamericans around 30,000 to 12,000 years ago
• Hunter-Gatherer/Indigenous Peoples Religiosity, Beliefs, and Practices
• Starting 30,000 Years Ago is the Sitting Venus Phenomena
• Shamanism 30,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”
• Trinity Evolution Started over 30,000 years ago, Maybe?
• Paleolithic Totem Venuses become the later Goddesses of the Neolithic and beyond?
• The “Inner Asian Mountain Corridor” as well as the “Eurasian Steppe Corridor” and Repetitious Migrations
• Who were the Groups migrating and merging with the previous Groups of Europe?
• 27,000 to 25,000 Years ago Oldest Shaman was Female, Buried with the Oldest Portrait Carving
• Could a Gravettian carving around 25,000 years old relate to Later Goddess and the Bull cults like Catal Huyuk
• Gravettian burial of Caviglione Woman, (shaman?) dated to around 24,000 years ago
• The Gravettian culture (Europe) shared ritual ideas and The Ancient North Eurasian culture (Asia) 24,000 years ago
• 24,000 Years Old Sacred Burial of a Siberian Mal’ta Boy
• Mal’ta–Buret’ culture of Siberia and Basal Haplogroup R* or R-M207
• Groups partially derived from the Ancient North Eurasians
• Leda and the Swan: possibly relates back to 24,000–15,000 years old Mal’ta–Buret’ culture, Lake Baikal, Siberia?
• Similarities in Shamanism?
• Black, White, and Yellow Shamanism?
• Shamanistic rock art from central Aboriginal Siberians and Aboriginal drums in the Americas
• Horned female shamans and Pre-satanism Devil/horned-god Worship?
• Epipalaeolithic Near East 20,000 to 9,000 years ago and the Emergence of Advanced Culture as well as New Religion?
• Sifting through the relation of Bird spirits/deities of the sky (20,000 to 5,000 years ago)
• (Magdalenian/Iberomaurusian) Connections to the First Paganists of the early Neolithic Near East Dating from around 17,000 to 12,000 Years Ago
• 16,000 to 12,000 years ago Magdalenian Sacred Ritual and Symbols
• Are the Natufians of Israel around 15,000 to 11,500 years ago who you thought they were?
• Natufians: an Ancient People at the Origins of Agriculture and Sedentary Life
• Possible Clan Leader/Special “MALE” Ancestor Totem Poles At Least 13,500 years ago?
• Jewish People with DNA at least 13,200 years old, Judaism, and the Origins of Some of its Ideas
• Genetic studies on Jewish DNA is not 6,000 years old but has origin links to about 20,000 to 30,000 years ago?
• Baltic Reindeer Hunters: Swiderian, Lyngby, Ahrensburgian, and Krasnosillya cultures 12,020 to 11,020 years ago are evidence of powerful migratory waves during the last 13,000 years and a genetic link to Saami and the Finno-Ugric peoples.
• My Reasoned Speculations on the Early Migrations of Paganism 13,000 to 3,000 years ago, Cultural Transfer
• 13,000-12,000 years ago Culture Leading to New Oppression changed everything and it was not always this way.
• The Rise of Inequality: patriarchy and state hierarchy inequality
• Fertile Crescent 12,500 – 9,500 Years Ago: fertility and death cult belief system?
• 12,400 – 11,700 Years Ago – Kortik Tepe (Turkey) Pre/early-Agriculture Cultic Ritualism
• Paganism: spread of Haplogroup J and its Seeming connection of Bull Worship
• Pre-Pottery Neolithic (10000 – 6500 BCE) and Pottery Neolithic (7000–5000 BCE)
• 12,000-year-old Gobekli Tepe: “first human-made pagan temple”
• Gobekli Tepe is more like Shamanistic early Paganism, Not Adam, Eve, and Cain or Bible anything!
• Ritualistic Bird Symbolism at Gobekli Tepe and its “Ancestor Cult”
• Male-Homosexual (female-like) / Trans-woman (female) Seated Figurine from Gobekli Tepe
• Could a 12,000-year-old Bull Geoglyph at Göbekli Tepe relate to older Bull and Female Art 25,000 years ago and Later Goddess and the Bull cults like Catal Huyuk?
• Sedentism and the Creation of goddesses around 12,000 years ago as well as male gods after 7,000 years ago.
• Alcohol, where Agriculture and Religion Become one? Such as Gobekli Tepe’s Ritualistic use of Grain as Food and Ritual Drink
• Epigravettians Join the Religious Partying at Gobekli Tepe?
• Neolithic Ritual Sites with T-Pillars and other Cultic Pillars
• Paganism: Goddesses around 12,000 years ago then Male Gods after 7,000 years ago
• First Patriarchy: Split of Women’s Status around 12,000 years ago & First Hierarchy: fall of Women’s Status around 5,000 years ago.
• Natufians: an Ancient People at the Origins of Agriculture and Sedentary Life
• J DNA and the Spread of Agricultural Religion (paganism)
• Paganism: an approximately 12,000-year-old belief system
• Paganism 12,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Pre-Capitalism)
• Shaman burial in Israel 12,000 years ago and the Shamanism Phenomena
• Need to Mythicized: gods and goddesses
• 12,000 – 7,000 Years Ago – Paleo-Indian Culture (The Americas)
• Ancient Egypt: Epipaleolithic, Neolithic, and Predynastic from 12,000 to 5,000 years ago
• 12,000 – 2,000 Years Ago – Indigenous-Scandinavians (Nordic)
• Norse did not wear helmets with horns?
• Pre-Pottery Neolithic Skull Cult around 11,500 to 8,400 Years Ago?
• Masked Head Hunters of “Karahan Tepe” 11,400-year-old monumental site from the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A to B
• 10,400 – 10,100 Years Ago, in Turkey the Nevail Cori Religious Settlement
• Evolution of human skin color, white-skin is really under 10,000 years old?
• Indo-European language Trees fit an Agricultural expansion from Anatolia beginning 8,000 – 9,500 years ago
• 9,000-6,500 Years Old Submerged Pre-Pottery/Pottery Neolithic Ritual Settlements off Israel’s Coast
• Catal Huyuk “first religious designed city” around 9,500 to 7,700 years ago (Turkey)
• Goddesses/Demigoddesses/Grandmother-Mother Ancestor Spirits from Catal Huyuk?
• Cultic Hunting at Catal Huyuk “first religious designed city”
• Special Items and Art as well as Special Elite Burials at Catal Huyuk
• New Rituals and Violence with the appearance of Pottery and People?
• Haplogroup N and its related Uralic Languages and Cultures
• Ainu people, Sámi people, Native Americans, the Ancient North Eurasians, and Paganistic-Shamanism with Totemism
• Ideas, Technology and People from Turkey, Europe, to China and Back again 9,000 to 5,000 years ago?
• First Pottery of Europe and the Related Cultures
• 9,000 years old Neolithic Artifacts Judean Desert and Hills Israel
• 9,000-7,000 years-old Sex and Death Rituals: Cult Sites in Israel, Jordan, and the Sinai
• 9,000-8500 year old Horned Female shaman Bad Dürrenberg Germany
• Neolithic Jewelry and the Spread of Farming in Europe Emerging out of West Turkey
• 8,600-year-old Tortoise Shells in Neolithic graves in central China have Early Writing and Shamanism
• Swing of the Mace: the rise of Elite, Forced Authority, and Inequality begin to Emerge 8,500 years ago?
• Migrations and Changing Europeans Beginning around 8,000 Years Ago
• My “Steppe-Anatolian-Kurgan hypothesis” 8,000/7,000 years ago
• Around 8,000-year-old Shared Idea of the Mistress of Animals, “Ritual” Motif
• Pre-Columbian Red-Paint (red ochre) Maritime Archaic Culture 8,000-3,000 years ago
• 7,522-6,522 years ago Linear Pottery culture which I think relates to Arcane Capitalism’s origins
• Arcane Capitalism: Primitive socialism, Primitive capital, Private ownership, Means of production, Market capitalism, Class discrimination, and Petite bourgeoisie (smaller capitalists)
• 7,500-4,750 years old Ritualistic Cucuteni-Trypillian culture of Moldova, Romania, and Ukraine
• Roots of a changing early society 7,200-6,700 years ago Jordan and Israel
• Agriculture religion (Paganism) with farming reached Britain between about 7,000 to 6,500 or so years ago and seemingly expressed in things like Western Europe’s Long Barrows
• My Thoughts on Possible Migrations of “R” DNA and Proto-Indo-European?
• “Millet” Spreading from China 7,022 years ago to Europe and related Language may have Spread with it leading to Proto-Indo-European
• Proto-Indo-European (PIE), ancestor of Indo-European languages: DNA, Society, Language, and Mythology
  
• The Dnieper–Donets culture and Asian varieties of Millet from China to the Black Sea region of Europe by 7,022 years ago
• Kurgan 6,000 years ago/dolmens 7,000 years ago: funeral, ritual, and other?
• 7,020 to 6,020-year-old Proto-Indo-European Homeland of Urheimat or proposed home of their Language and Religion
• Ancient Megaliths: Kurgan, Ziggurat, Pyramid, Menhir, Trilithon, Dolman, Kromlech, and Kromlech of Trilithons
• The Mytheme of Ancient North Eurasian Sacred-Dog belief and similar motifs are found in Indo-European, Native American, and Siberian comparative mythology
• Elite Power Accumulation: Ancient Trade, Tokens, Writing, Wealth, Merchants, and Priest-Kings
• Sacred Mounds, Mountains, Kurgans, and Pyramids may hold deep connections?
• Between 7,000-5,000 Years ago, rise of unequal hierarchy elite, leading to a “birth of the State” or worship of power, strong new sexism, oppression of non-elites, and the fall of Women’s equal status
• Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite & their slaves
• Hell and Underworld mythologies starting maybe as far back as 7,000 to 5,000 years ago with the Proto-Indo-Europeans?
• The First Expression of the Male God around 7,000 years ago?
• White (light complexion skin) Bigotry and Sexism started 7,000 years ago?
• Around 7,000-year-old Shared Idea of the Divine Bird (Tutelary and/or Trickster spirit/deity), “Ritual” Motif
• Nekhbet an Ancient Egyptian Vulture Goddess and Tutelary Deity
• 6,720 to 4,920 years old Ritualistic Hongshan Culture of Inner Mongolia with 5,000-year-old Pyramid Mounds and Temples
• First proto-king in the Balkans, Varna culture around 6,500 years ago?
• 6,500–5,800 years ago in Israel Late Chalcolithic (Copper Age) Period in the Southern Levant Seems to Express Northern Levant Migrations, Cultural and Religious Transfer
• KING OF BEASTS: Master of Animals “Ritual” Motif, around 6,000 years old or older…
• Around 6000-year-old Shared Idea of the Solid Wheel & the Spoked Wheel-Shaped Ritual Motif
• “The Ghassulian Star,” a mysterious 6,000-year-old mural from Jordan; a Proto-Star of Ishtar, Star of Inanna or Star of Venus?
• Religious/Ritual Ideas, including goddesses and gods as well as ritual mounds or pyramids from Northeastern Asia at least 6,000 years old, seemingly filtering to Iran, Iraq, the Mediterranean, Europe, Egypt, and the Americas?
• Maykop (5,720–5,020 years ago) Caucasus region Bronze Age culture-related to Copper Age farmers from the south, influenced by the Ubaid period and Leyla-Tepe culture, as well as influencing the Kura-Araxes culture
• 5-600-year-old Tomb, Mummy, and First Bearded Male Figurine in a Grave
• Kura-Araxes Cultural 5,520 to 4,470 years old DNA traces to the Canaanites, Arabs, and Jews
• Minoan/Cretan (Keftiu) Civilization and Religion around 5,520 to 3,120 years ago
• Evolution Of Science at least by 5,500 years ago
• 5,500 Years old birth of the State, the rise of Hierarchy, and the fall of Women’s status
• “Jiroft culture” 5,100 – 4,200 years ago and the History of Iran
• Stonehenge: Paganistic Burial and Astrological Ritual Complex, England (5,100-3,600 years ago)
• Around 5,000-year-old Shared Idea of the “Tree of Life” Ritual Motif
• Complex rituals for elite, seen from China to Egypt, at least by 5,000 years ago
• Around 5,000 years ago: “Birth of the State” where Religion gets Military Power and Influence
• The Center of the World “Axis Mundi” and/or “Sacred Mountains” Mythology Could Relate to the Altai Mountains, Heart of the Steppe
• Progressed organized religion starts, an approximately 5,000-year-old belief system
• China’s Civilization between 5,000-3,000 years ago, was a time of war and class struggle, violent transition from free clans to a Slave or Elite society
• Origin of Logics is Naturalistic Observation at least by around 5,000 years ago.
• Paganism 5,000 years old: progressed organized religion and the state: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Kings and the Rise of the State)
• Ziggurats (multi-platform temples: 4,900 years old) to Pyramids (multi-platform tombs: 4,700 years old)
• Did a 4,520–4,420-year-old Volcano In Turkey Inspire the Bible God?
• Finland’s Horned Shaman and Pre-Horned-God at least 4,500 years ago?
• 4,000-year-Old Dolmens in Israel: A Connected Dolmen Religious Phenomenon?
• Creation myths: From chaos, Ex nihilo, Earth-diver, Emergence, World egg, and World parent
• Bronze Age “Ritual” connections of the Bell Beaker culture with the Corded Ware/Single Grave culture, which were related to the Yamnaya culture and Proto-Indo-European Languages/Religions
• Low Gods (Earth/ Tutelary deity), High Gods (Sky/Supreme deity), and Moralistic Gods (Deity enforcement/divine order)
• The exchange of people, ideas, and material-culture including, to me, the new god (Sky Father) and goddess (Earth Mother) religion between the Cucuteni-Trypillians and others which is then spread far and wide
• Koryaks: Indigenous People of the Russian Far East and Big Raven myths also found in Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian, and other Indigenous People of North America
• 42 Principles Of Maat (Egyptian Goddess of the justice) around 4,400 years ago, 2000 Years Before Ten Commandments
• “Happy Easter” Well Happy Eostre/Ishter
• 4,320-3,820 years old “Shimao” (North China) site with Totemistic-Shamanistic Paganism and a Stepped Pyramid
• 4,250 to 3,400 Year old Stonehenge from Russia: Arkaim?
• 4,100-year-old beaker with medicinal & flowering plants in a grave of a woman in Scotland
• Early European Farmer ancestry, Kelif el Boroud people with the Cardial Ware culture, and the Bell Beaker culture Paganists too, spread into North Africa, then to the Canary Islands off West Africa
• Flood Accounts: Gilgamesh epic (4,100 years ago) Noah in Genesis (2,600 years ago)
• Paganism 4,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism)
• When was the beginning: TIMELINE OF CURRENT RELIGIONS, which start around 4,000 years ago.
• Early Religions Thought to Express Proto-Monotheistic Systems around 4,000 years ago
• Kultepe? An archaeological site with a 4,000 years old women’s rights document.
• Single God Religions (Monotheism) = “Man-o-theism” started around 4,000 years ago with the Great Sky Spirit/God Tiān (天)?
• Confucianism’s Tiān (Shangdi god 4,000 years old): Supernaturalism, Pantheism or Theism?
• Yes, Your Male God is Ridiculous
• Mythology, a Lunar Deity is a Goddess or God of the Moon
• Sacred Land, Hills, and Mountains: Sami Mythology (Paganistic Shamanism)
• Horse Worship/Sacrifice: mythical union of Ruling Elite/Kingship and the Horse
• The Amorite/Amurru people’s God Amurru “Lord of the Steppe”, relates to the Origins of the Bible God?
• Bronze Age Exotic Trade Routes Spread Quite Far as well as Spread Religious Ideas with Them
• Sami and the Northern Indigenous Peoples Landscape, Language, and its Connection to Religion
• Prototype of Ancient Analemmatic Sundials around 3,900-3,150 years ago and a Possible Solar Connection to gods?
• Judaism is around 3,450 or 3,250 years old. (“Paleo-Hebrew” 3,000 years ago and Torah 2,500 years ago)
• The Weakening of Ancient Trade and the Strengthening of Religions around 3000 years ago?
• Are you aware that there are religions that worship women gods, explain now religion tears women down?
• Animistic, Totemistic, and Paganistic Superstition Origins of bible god and the bible’s Religion.
• Myths and Folklore: “Trickster gods and goddesses”
• Jews, Judaism, and the Origins of Some of its Ideas
• An Old Branch of Religion Still Giving Fruit: Sacred Trees
• Dating the BIBLE: naming names and telling times (written less than 3,000 years ago, provable to 2,200 years ago)
• Did a Volcano Inspire the bible god?
• Yamnaya culture or at least Proto-Indo-European Languages/Religions may actually relate back to North Asia?
• Dené–Yeniseian language, Old Copper Complex, and Pre-Columbian Mound Builders?
• No “dinosaurs and humans didn’t exist together just because some think they are in the bible itself”
• Sacred Shit and Sacred Animals?
• Everyone Killed in the Bible Flood? “Nephilim” (giants)?
• Hey, Damien dude, I have a question for you regarding “the bible” Exodus.
• Archaeology Disproves the Bible
• Bible Battle, Just More, Bible Babble
• The Jericho Conquest lie?
• Canaanites and Israelites?
• Accurate Account on how did Christianity Began?
• Let’s talk about Christianity.
• So the 10 commandments isn’t anything to go by either right?
• Misinformed christian
• Debunking Jesus?
• Paulism vs Jesus
• Ok, you seem confused so let’s talk about Buddhism.
• Unacknowledged Buddhism: Gods, Savior, Demons, Rebirth, Heavens, Hells, and Terrorism
• His Foolishness The Dalai Lama
• Yin and Yang is sexist with an ORIGIN around 2,300 years ago?
• I Believe Archaeology, not Myths & Why Not, as the Religious Myths Already Violate Reason!
• Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense.
• Aquatic Ape Theory/Hypothesis? As Always, Just Pseudoscience.
• Ancient Aliens Conspiracy Theorists are Pseudohistorians
• The Pseudohistoric and Pseudoscientific claims about “Bakoni Ruins” of South Africa
• Why do people think Religion is much more than supernaturalism and superstitionism?
• Religion is an Evolved Product
• Was the Value of Ancient Women Different?
• 1000 to 1100 CE, human sacrifice Cahokia Mounds a pre-Columbian Native American site
• Feminist atheists as far back as the 1800s?
• Promoting Religion as Real is Mentally Harmful to a Flourishing Humanity
• Screw All Religions and Their Toxic lies, they are all fraud
• Forget Religions’ Unfounded Myths, I Have Substantiated “Archaeology Facts.”
• Religion Dispersal throughout the World
• I Hate Religion Just as I Hate all Pseudoscience
• Exposing Scientology, Eckankar, Wicca and Other Nonsense?
• Main deity or religious belief systems
• Quit Trying to Invent Your God From the Scraps of Science.
• Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense.
• Ancient Alien Conspiracy Theorists: Misunderstanding, Rhetoric, Misinformation, Fabrications, and Lies
• Misinformation, Distortion, and Pseudoscience in Talking with a Christian Creationist
• Judging the Lack of Goodness in Gods, Even the Norse God Odin
• Challenging the Belief in God-like Aliens and Gods in General
• A Challenge to Christian use of Torture Devices?
• Yes, Hinduism is a Religion
• Trump is One of the Most Reactionary Forces of Far-right Christian Extremism
• Was the Bull Head a Symbol of God? Yes!
• Primate Death Rituals
• Christian – “God and Christianity are objectively true”
• Australopithecus afarensis Death Ritual?
• You Claim Global Warming is a Hoax?
• Doubter of Science and Defamer of Atheists?
• I think that sounds like the Bible?
• History of the Antifa (“anti-fascist”) Movements
• Indianapolis Anti-Blasphemy Laws #Free Soheil Rally
• Damien, you repeat the golden rule in so many forms then you say religion is dogmatic?
• Science is a Trustable Methodology whereas Faith is not Trustable at all!
• Was I ever a believer, before I was an atheist?
• Atheists rise in reason
• Mistrust of science?
• Open to Talking About the Definition of ‘God’? But first, we address Faith.
• ‘United Monarchy’ full of splendor and power – Saul, David, and Solomon? Most likely not.
• Is there EXODUS ARCHAEOLOGY? The short answer is “no.”
• Lacking Proof of Bigfoots, Unicorns, and Gods is Just a Lack of Research?
• Religion and Politics: Faith Beliefs vs. Rational Thinking
• Hammer of Truth that lying pig RELIGION: challenged by an archaeologist
• “The Hammer of Truth” -ontology question- What do You Mean by That?
• Navigation of a bad argument: Ad Hominem vs. Attack
• Why is it Often Claimed that Gods have a Gender?
• Why are basically all monotheistic religions ones that have a male god?
• Shifting through the Claims in support of Faith
• Dear Mr. AtHope, The 20th Century is an Indictment of Secularism and a Failed Atheist Century
• An Understanding of the Worldwide Statistics and Dynamics of Terrorist Incidents and Suicide Attacks
• Intoxication and Evolution? Addressing and Assessing the “Stoned Ape” or “Drunken Monkey” Theories as Catalysts in Human Evolution
• Sacred Menstrual cloth? Inanna’s knot, Isis knot, and maybe Ma’at’s feather?
• Damien, why don’t the Hebrews accept the bible stories?
• Dealing with a Troll and Arguing Over Word Meaning
• Knowledge without Belief? Justified beliefs or disbeliefs worthy of Knowledge?
• Afrocentrism and African Religions
• Crecganford @crecganford offers history & stories of the people, places, gods, & culture
• Empiricism-Denier?

I am not an academic. I am a revolutionary that teaches in public, in places like social media, and in the streets. I am not a leader by some title given but from my commanding leadership style of simply to start teaching everywhere to everyone, all manner of positive education. 

Damien Marie AtHope’s Art

To me, Animism starts in Southern Africa, then to West Europe, and becomes Totemism. Another split goes near the Russia and Siberia border becoming Shamanism, which heads into Central Europe meeting up with Totemism, which also had moved there, mixing the two which then heads to Lake Baikal in Siberia. From there this Shamanism-Totemism heads to Turkey where it becomes Paganism.

My thoughts on the Evolution of Religion: from Animism to Paganism

Philosophy to the Rescue: explaining Reason, Logic, Evidence, Truth, Certainty, Reality, and Science

Talking about “Religion and Deity Evolution” on Twitter (X) Questions and Answers

You can’t change people, by reason and evidence. WRONG, I do it all the time.

Damien Marie AtHope’s Art

ref, ref, ref

“Theists, there has to be a god, as something can not come from nothing.”

Well, thus something (unknown) happened and then there was something. This does not tell us what the something that may have been involved with something coming from nothing. A supposed first cause, thus something (unknown) happened and then there was something is not an open invitation to claim it as known, neither is it justified to call or label such an unknown as anything, especially an unsubstantiated magical thinking belief born of mythology and religious storytelling.

Damien Marie AtHope’s Art

The “Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries”

Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ Atheist Leftist @Skepticallefty & I (Damien Marie AtHope) @AthopeMarie (my YouTube & related blog) are working jointly in atheist, antitheist, antireligionist, antifascist, anarchist, socialist, and humanist endeavors in our videos together, generally, every other Saturday.

Why Does Power Bring Responsibility?

Think, how often is it the powerless that start wars, oppress others, or commit genocide? So, I guess the question is to us all, to ask, how can power not carry responsibility in a humanity concept? I know I see the deep ethical responsibility that if there is power their must be a humanistic responsibility of ethical and empathic stewardship of that power. Will I be brave enough to be kind? Will I possess enough courage to be compassionate? Will my valor reach its height of empathy? I as everyone, earns our justified respect by our actions, that are good, ethical, just, protecting, and kind. Do I have enough self-respect to put my love for humanity’s flushing, over being brought down by some of its bad actors? May we all be the ones doing good actions in the world, to help human flourishing.

I create the world I want to live in, striving for flourishing. Which is not a place but a positive potential involvement and promotion; a life of humanist goal precision. To master oneself, also means mastering positive prosocial behaviors needed for human flourishing. I may have lost a god myth as an atheist, but I am happy to tell you, my friend, it is exactly because of that, leaving the mental terrorizer, god belief, that I truly regained my connected ethical as well as kind humanity.

Cory and I will talk about prehistory and theism, addressing the relevance to atheism, anarchism, and socialism.

At the same time as the rise of the male god, 7,000 years ago, there was also the very time there was the rise of violence, war, and clans to kingdoms, then empires, then states. It is all connected back to 7,000 years ago, and it moved across the world.

Cory Johnston: https://damienmarieathope.com/2021/04/cory-johnston-mind-of-a-skeptical-leftist/?v=32aec8db952d  

The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist (YouTube)

Cory Johnston: Mind of a Skeptical Leftist @Skepticallefty

The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist By Cory Johnston: “Promoting critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics by covering current events and talking to a variety of people. Cory Johnston has been thoughtfully talking to people and attempting to promote critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics.” http://anchor.fm/skepticalleft

Cory needs our support. We rise by helping each other.

Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ @Skepticallefty Evidence-based atheist leftist (he/him) Producer, host, and co-host of 4 podcasts @skeptarchy @skpoliticspod and @AthopeMarie

Damien Marie AtHope (“At Hope”) Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist. Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Poet, Philosopher, Advocate, Activist, Psychology, and Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Historian.

Damien is interested in: Freedom, Liberty, Justice, Equality, Ethics, Humanism, Science, Atheism, Antiteism, Antireligionism, Ignosticism, Left-Libertarianism, Anarchism, Socialism, Mutualism, Axiology, Metaphysics, LGBTQI, Philosophy, Advocacy, Activism, Mental Health, Psychology, Archaeology, Social Work, Sexual Rights, Marriage Rights, Woman’s Rights, Gender Rights, Child Rights, Secular Rights, Race Equality, Ageism/Disability Equality, Etc. And a far-leftist, “Anarcho-Humanist.”

I am not a good fit in the atheist movement that is mostly pro-capitalist, I am anti-capitalist. Mostly pro-skeptic, I am a rationalist not valuing skepticism. Mostly pro-agnostic, I am anti-agnostic. Mostly limited to anti-Abrahamic religions, I am an anti-religionist.

To me, the “male god” seems to have either emerged or become prominent around 7,000 years ago, whereas the now favored monotheism “male god” is more like 4,000 years ago or so. To me, the “female goddess” seems to have either emerged or become prominent around 11,000-10,000 years ago or so, losing the majority of its once prominence around 2,000 years ago due largely to the now favored monotheism “male god” that grow in prominence after 4,000 years ago or so.

My Thought on the Evolution of Gods?

Animal protector deities from old totems/spirit animal beliefs come first to me, 13,000/12,000 years ago, then women as deities 11,000/10,000 years ago, then male gods around 7,000/8,000 years ago. Moralistic gods around 5,000/4,000 years ago, and monotheistic gods around 4,000/3,000 years ago. 

To me, animal gods were likely first related to totemism animals around 13,000 to 12,000 years ago or older. Female as goddesses was next to me, 11,000 to 10,000 years ago or so with the emergence of agriculture. Then male gods come about 8,000 to 7,000 years ago with clan wars. Many monotheism-themed religions started in henotheism, emerging out of polytheism/paganism.