“The Bible FLOOD passage, describes that mankind had gotten intolerably bad. Read what it says, and then pose the question. Preferably, use the King James version that expresses the biblical narrative in eloquent language, Rather than in the modern dummied-down versions.” – Commenter
My response, You stated, “mankind had gotten intolerably bad” and you are not saying an ethical or just response was “Genocide”, right?
Genesis Flood Narrative = Evil Bible God
“The Genesis flood narrative is the flood myth found in chapters 6–9 of the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament. The story tells of God’s decision to return the Earth to its pre-creation state of watery chaos and then remake it in a reversal of creation. The narrative has very strong similarities to parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the Book of Genesis. A global flood as described in this myth is inconsistent with the physical findings of geology, paleontology, and the global distribution of species. A branch of creationism known as flood geology is a pseudoscientific attempt to argue that such a global flood actually occurred.” ref
If the god of the bible is all about free will and repentance, why didn’t the bible god just ask for or offer forgiveness to the earth. Abraham was able to pleads for Sodom, as if a loving kind god would need to be pleaded with in the first place. But god was able to change his mind with the reasoning from a mortal supposedly morality inferior and yet is not the pleading against genocide not the truly moral being, not the god who wishes genocide an obvious moral injustice. But the immoral bible is full of god sanctioned or god ordered genocide. But let’s get back to the time just before the claimed world flood which according to Answers in Genesis was approximately 4,359 years ago in the year 1656 AM or 2348 BC. Let’s assume Noah was like Abraham and pleaded to god not to destroy all life on earth committing planetary genocide. Who would be the true moral being the one who feels a need to genocide the entire earth or the one pleading for not doing such heinous crime as worldwide genocide?
So, like in Genesis 18 let’s change the Abraham for Noah and replace Sodom for Earth to further see how unloving and careless as well as immoral the bible god would be if real. So, let’s start, planet killing god said, “The outcry against of Earth is so great and the sin on Earth so grievous (never explained fully). Then Noah approached the genocidal death by water god and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people on Earth? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the planet for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” The world murdering god said, “If I find fifty righteous people on Earth, I will spare the whole place for their sake.” Then Noah said: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Earth killer god, what if the number of the righteous is forty-five? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?” The planet drowning god genocider responded, “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.” Once again Noah spoke to god of world death, “What if only forty are found there?” the humanity genocidal madgod said, “for the sake of forty, I will not do it.” Then Noah said, “what if only thirty can be found there?” The immoral genocide supporting god answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” Noah said, “what if only twenty can be found there?” Bloated bodies death god said, “for the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.” Then Noah said, “what if only ten can be found there?” The evil monster myth god answered, “for the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
Finally, even if the flood model weren’t riddled by all a plethora of problems, why should we accept it morally? Even looking past its axiological morality problems as what it does attempt to explain, is already explained far more accurately, consistently, and thoroughly by conventional geology and biology, and the flood model leaves many other things unexplained, even unexplainable. The worldwide flood didn’t happen, to believe otherwise is deluded.
Conclusion: the bible if real would be the worst genocide supporting evil beings in the universe.
The flood myth never happened: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
The ICR flood geology theory relates the events of the Biblical Flood as follows: Before the Flood, a water vapor “canopy” in the upper atmosphere created a greenhouse effect, making the entire earth a tropical paradise. The oceans were shallower, the lands lower and more extensive than today. Because the greenhouse effect kept temperatures the same throughout the earth, there was no wind circulation and no rain, only a mist that watered the ground daily. Underneath the earth lay vast underground water reservoirs. To start the Flood, God performed some miracles: He made the animals seek out Noah’s Ark, “opened the windows of the heavens” to empty the vapor canopy on to the earth, and “broke the fountains of the great deep” to overwhelm the continents with volcanically heated brines. During the course of the flood, the violence of the rains and volcanic waters catastrophically scoured and dumped sediments, burying all sorts of creatures as fossils in the process. In and of itself, this catastrophic erosion and sedimentation was perfectly naturalistic; it operated according to ordinary laws of physics and chemistry, only on a much larger and faster scale than erosion and sedimentation today. One year later, to end the Flood, God performed one more set of miracles; he made the continents rise and the ocean basins sink along vertical faults. These new basins were necessary to contain all the ocean waters once they had been augmented with all the newly released canopy and subterranean waters. Thus, ended the Flood of Noah; thus originated the face of the earth we see today. Modern creationists no longer calculate precise Biblical chronologies because they say there may be small gaps in some of them. Even so, they believe that God created the earth no earlier than ten thousand years ago, and brought on the Flood one or two thousand years after the Creation. This account summarizes the flood geology model that Dr. Henry M. Morris, Director of ICR, expounds and defends in creationist classics like The Genesis Flood (Whitcomb and Morris, 1961) and Scientific Creationism (1974).
The Fatal Flaws of Flood Geology: https://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
The Great Flood (Genesis 7)
The bible god Yahweh said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before bible god Yahweh in this generation. 2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth. 4 For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I bible god Yahweh will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” 5 And Noah did according to all that bible god Yahweh commanded him. 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth. 7 So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean animals, of animals that are unclean, of birds, and of everything that creeps on the earth, 9 two by two they went into the ark to Noah, male and female, as bible god Yahweh had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 On the very same day Noah and Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark— 14 they and every beast after its kind, all cattle after their kind, every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath of life. 16 So those that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as bible god Yahweh had commanded him; and bible god Yahweh shut him in. 17 Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So bible god Yahweh destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. 24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.
“The bible flood narrative is part of what scholars call the primeval history, the first 11 chapters of Genesis. These chapters, fable-like and legendary, form a preface to the patriarchal narratives which follow, but show little relationship to them. For example, the names of its characters and its geography—Adam (“Man”) and Eve (“Life”), the Land of Nod (“Wandering”), and so on—are symbolic rather than real, and much of the narratives consist of lists of “firsts”: the first murder, the first wine, the first empire-builder. Few of the people, places, and events depicted in the book are mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.” ref
“This has led scholars to suppose that the primeval history forms a late composition attached to Genesis to serve as an introduction. At one extreme are those who see it as a product of the Hellenistic period, in which case it cannot be earlier than the first decades of the 4th century BCE; on the other hand, the Yahwist (Jahwist) source has been dated by others, notably John Van Seters, to the exilic pre-Persian period (the 6th century BCE), precisely because the primeval history contains so much Babylonian influence in the form of myth.” ref
“The flood narrative is made up of two stories woven together. As a result, many details are contradictory, such as how long the flood lasted (40 days according to Genesis 7:17, 150 according to 7:24), how many animals were to be taken aboard the Ark (one pair of each in 6:19, one pair of the unclean animals and seven pairs of the clean in 7:2), and whether Noah released a raven which “went to and fro until the waters were dried up” or a dove which on the third occasion “did not return to him again,” or possibly both. Despite this disagreement on details, the story forms a unified whole (some scholars see in it a “chiasm“, a literary structure in which the first item matches the last, the second the second-last, and so on), and many efforts have been made to explain this unity, including attempts to identify which of the two sources was earlier and therefore influenced the other.” ref
“The flood narrative at large is composed of the Jahwist and Priestly sources; the Elohist source that the Jahwist narrative was later conjoined to apparently lacked any of the narratives pertaining to events that preceded the strife between Sarai and Hagar. The Jahwist narrative, centuries older than the Priestly, appears to constitute all the similarities with the flood myth from the Epic of Gilgamesh: After being discovered as righteous in a world full of iniquity, Noah builds the Ark at Yahweh‘s behest. He receives instruction on the number of animals to store (seven of clean animals and fowls, but two of unclean beasts). A week-long torrent causes the Deluge, which lasts forty days, after which Noah releases a dove once a week for four weeks until the dove doesn’t return. Noah takes this to mean that the bird has finally found dry land to nest on. So he leads his family out of the Ark, at which point he builds an altar to Yahweh, prompting the deity to establish the Noahic covenant.” ref
“The Priestly source serves largely as a tool of promoting God’s overall influence in the event, inserting a narrative where God speaks directly to Noah and extolls his virtues, before vowing to establish a covenant with him and providing strict instructions as to the structure of the Ark. He then commands Noah to take with him the more famous two of every animal onto the Ark, although because the Priestly source’s urtext never actually described Noah doing this, it is immediately followed by the Jahwist’s contradictory claim of Noah bringing sevens for most and two for some. The Priestly source then describes the flood as lasting for 150 days, without making mention of how the waters rose as the Yahwist had — although it then explains that God shut the windows of the firmament and the abyss in order to abate the waters, which would imply they were likewise its origin as well. The end of the Priestly source’s Deluge is far more gradual than the Yahwist’s; instead of taking seven days, it now takes a full year, and Noah sends out a raven at the end of the tenth month, as opposed to a dove after only 40 days of rain. Eventually, at the Ark’s resting place, now clarified as Ararat, it is God, and not Noah, who commands the Ark’s occupants to disembark.” ref
“In summary, the ‘original’, Jahwist narrative of the Great Deluge was modest; a week of ostensibly non-celestial rain is followed by a forty-day flood which takes a mere week to recede in order to provide Noah his stage for God’s covenant. It is the Priestly Source which adds more fantastic figures of a 150-day flood, which emerged by divine hand from the heavens and earth and took ten months to finally stop. Gilbert Christopher argues that the Jahwist source’s capricious and somewhat simplistic depiction of Yahweh is clearly distinguished from the Priestly source’s characteristically majestic, transcendental, and austere virtuous Yahweh.” ref
“Not to mention that the flood myth seen in the bible is said to have originated in Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian: Flood myth story has three distinct versions, the Sumerian Epic of Ziusudra, (the oldest, dating from about 1600 BCE), and as episodes in two Babylonian epics, those of Atrahasis and Gilgamesh. Allusions to the flood are also found in The Sumerian King List and The Instructions of Shurrupak. Yi Samuel Chen Argues that this narrative was added during the Old Babylonian Period, analyzing how texts before didn’t contain the myth and texts containing it were written during and after the Old Babylonian Period. The Old Babylonian Period was after the Ur III Period, an era known for self-deified kings. Chen argues that the demise of the Ur III Period inspired elements of the flood narrative.” ref
I hear some Christians say there are things in the Old Testament, Bible God did not approve of, but can they show me, any verse, in the bible, that Jesus said was in error? Yea, not one, so he saw no errors, and you do? So, believers, I am guessing you will feel you must defend it all or go against Jesus.
If you know of god, what Exemplary behaviors are you doing in the world? Because I am told by you that God is love. Just a heads up, one of my least favorite things is unkind people. If your belief made you different would we not see it clearly?
While hallucinogens are associated with shamanism, it is alcohol that is associated with paganism.
The Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries Shows in the prehistory series:
Show six: Emergence of hierarchy, sexism, slavery, and the new male god dominance: Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves!
Show eight: Paganism 4,000 years old: Moralistic gods after the rise of Statism and often support Statism/Kings: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism)
Prehistory: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” the division of labor, power, rights, and recourses: VIDEO
Pre-animism 300,000 years old and animism 100,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Totemism 50,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Shamanism 30,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism”: VIDEO
Paganism 12,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Pre-Capitalism): VIDEO
Paganism 7,000-5,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Capitalism) (World War 0) Elite and their slaves: VIEDO
Paganism 5,000 years old: progressed organized religion and the state: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (Kings and the Rise of the State): VIEDO
Paganism 4,000 years old: related to “Anarchism and Socialism” (First Moralistic gods, then the Origin time of Monotheism): VIEDO
I do not hate simply because I challenge and expose myths or lies any more than others being thought of as loving simply because of the protection and hiding from challenge their favored myths or lies.
The truth is best championed in the sunlight of challenge.
An archaeologist once said to me “Damien religion and culture are very different”
My response, So are you saying that was always that way, such as would you say Native Americans’ cultures are separate from their religions? And do you think it always was the way you believe?
I had said that religion was a cultural product. That is still how I see it and there are other archaeologists that think close to me as well. Gods too are the myths of cultures that did not understand science or the world around them, seeing magic/supernatural everywhere.
I personally think there is a goddess and not enough evidence to support a male god at Çatalhöyük but if there was both a male and female god and goddess then I know the kind of gods they were like Proto-Indo-European mythology.
The “Atheist-Humanist-Leftist Revolutionaries”
Cory Johnston ☭ Ⓐ Atheist Leftist @Skepticallefty & I (Damien Marie AtHope) @AthopeMarie (my YouTube & related blog) are working jointly in atheist, antitheist, antireligionist, antifascist, anarchist, socialist, and humanist endeavors in our videos together, generally, every other Saturday.
Why Does Power Bring Responsibility?
Think, how often is it the powerless that start wars, oppress others, or commit genocide? So, I guess the question is to us all, to ask, how can power not carry responsibility in a humanity concept? I know I see the deep ethical responsibility that if there is power their must be a humanistic responsibility of ethical and empathic stewardship of that power. Will I be brave enough to be kind? Will I possess enough courage to be compassionate? Will my valor reached its height of empathy? I as everyone earns our justified respect by our actions, that are good, ethical, just, protecting, and kind. Do I have enough self-respect to put my love for humanity’s flushing, over being brought down by some of its bad actors? May we all be the ones doing good actions in the world, to help human flourishing.
I create the world I want to live in, striving for flourishing. Which is not a place but a positive potential involvement and promotion; a life of humanist goal precision. To master oneself, also means mastering positive prosocial behaviors needed for human flourishing. I may have lost a god myth as an atheist but I am happy to tell you my friend, it is exactly because of that, leaving the mental terrorizer, god belief that I truly regained my connected ethical as well as kind humanity.
Cory and I will talk about prehistory and theism, addressing the relevance to atheism, anarchism, and socialism.
At the same time of the rise of the male god 7,000 years ago was also the very time there was the rise of violence war, and clans to kingdoms, then empires, then states. It is all connected back to 7,000 years ago and it mover across the world.
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist (YouTube)
Cory Johnston: Mind of a Skeptical Leftist @Skepticalcory
The Mind of a Skeptical Leftist By Cory Johnston: “Promoting critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics by covering current events and talking to a variety of people. Cory Johnston has been thoughtfully talking to people and attempting to promote critical thinking, social justice, and left-wing politics.”
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Damien Marie AtHope (“At Hope”) Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist. Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Poet, Philosopher, Advocate, Activist, Psychology, and Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Historian.
Damien is interested in: Freedom, Liberty, Justice, Equality, Ethics, Humanism, Science, Atheism, Antiteism, Antireligionism, Ignosticism, Left-Libertarianism, Anarchism, Socialism, Mutualism, Axiology, Metaphysics, LGBTQI, Philosophy, Advocacy, Activism, Mental Health, Psychology, Archaeology, Social Work, Sexual Rights, Marriage Rights, Woman’s Rights, Gender Rights, Child Rights, Secular Rights, Race Equality, Ageism/Disability Equality, Etc. And a far-leftist, “Anarcho-Humanist.”
Damien Marie AtHope (Said as “At” “Hope”)/(Autodidact Polymath but not good at math):
Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist, Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Jeweler, Poet, “autodidact” Philosopher, schooled in Psychology, and “autodidact” Armchair Archaeology/Anthropology/Pre-Historian (Knowledgeable in the range of: 1 million to 5,000/4,000 years ago). I am an anarchist socialist politically. Reasons for or Types of Atheism