Doing Good Because its Good: Anti-cult Activism; an Interview with Debra Van Neste
Debra Van Neste
COO Thinking Agenda, LLC publicist and advocate. #cults #culteducation
Debra Van Neste was a survivor of a cult in her teens (Jesus People USA) and a trauma survivor with an abusive Swami in a small sect. She started out publishing a free newsletter on Gurus and then launched her own magazine on Amazon called “Ethics and The Modern Guru” she then founded “Thinking Agenda” as a legally registered LLC anti-cult organization in Orlando, Florida. She still works full time 20 years strong at Orlando Health Hospital. She is dedicated to working with top professionals and ethical educational organizations.
Her goal as an atheist humanist is to aid in bettering society by employing her skills, knowledge, and experience to produce an informative magazine on cults, worldwide. To educate the public on current cults. To offer an aftercare program on critical thinking and skepticism.
Thinking Agenda LLC is the umbrella company for many of our projects that are about cults and critical thinking. Founded by Steven and Debra Van Neste, and home based in Orlando, Florida. After the success of their anti-cult publication “Ethics and The Modern Guru” they decided it was time to branch out and invest to be a real company that can offer genuine engagement, education and advocacy. For now we invite you to our social media platforms, so you can get to know us better and what we do. We will be expanding this site, and if you are interested in writing for us and having your articles on several of our platforms, contact us at admin@thinking-agenda.com
“Art is Heart” is the theme for our new art co-op which is a physical place to teach about art and cult education awareness, in Bristol Florida. We at Thinking Agenda, LLC, Founded by Steven and Debra Van Neste, we have partnered with Grady and Yvette Smith, to have the full use of a physical building in Bristol, Florida in which Grady and Yvette Smith can hold art venues, dance classes, showcase art, and Thinking Agenda can hold workshops concerning cult education.
We are setting up a Butterfly Boutique on Etsy and through our website to raise funds. 50% of all funds from the Butterfly Boutique, will go towards the renovation of this building. In the near future we hope to set a legal trust to help cult victims get recovery options. Funds from this shop will also go to expenses towards traveling as inexpensively as possible, to seminars and educational venues, to build a library, and to update on the most inexpensive minimum scale, electronics and equipment. Thinking Agenda is a legally registered LLC in Orlando Florida, the main partnerships are Steven and Debra Van Neste with Grady and Yvette Smith. Thinking Agenda was started primarily as an anti cult educational organization, but we work with non profits, educators, therapists and experts. Survivors of cults need resources and skills on many levels.
Thinking Agenda promotes choice, your choice to think freely and clearly, to live, to love, to learn.
What happened to me when I was drawn to an internet Swami, it was not all love and light folks.
by Debra Van Neste
We often have
They act kind, warm, enigmatic, charismatic, full of joy and when they see you, you feel addicted to that energy and you feel like a warm blanket was just draped over your shivering spiritual body.
Rather than deal with your problems, you bury your identity in the figure of Guru, your teacher starts to mold you and says you are in his image and all is perfect. For me wanting to escape responsibility and accountability this was very enticing.
To go back to the world when there is nothing there, this becomes a crisis especially if you feel no one would notice if you lived or died. Faced with this, the love of my Guru, meant the world loved me, because I saw myself through him, and in doing that, I became him.
To backtrack, I was an occult practitioner, and I started to study eastern mysticism. The occult left me with a void that became an echo chamber of my ego and showmanship. I had a thriving business and many followers, but I felt like an actor, and when the show was over I slumped back into some gray mass of sadness.
Reading one day about “enlightenment” I became obsessed with what this phenomenon was all about, is there such a thing as enlightenment? Though the new age teachers seemed like shams, I happened to stumble online into what seemed a humble Swami, with a tiny following on Facebook. His words disoriented me, and I can only compare it too feeling like a starving child. I finally friended him on Facebook. At first, he didn’t seem to notice, and weeks went by before I made contact. I was scared, so I first just messaged a shy “hello.”
He responded kindly and asked me a few questions about why I followed him. He was patient, as he explained many teachings. He was concerned about everything in my life and remembered everything I would tell him.
He even remembered people I complained about. In a few months, he was closer to me, than anyone in my life. He had a sense of humor and he had a degree and education. We literally talked all day and often all night, laughing too, and he had many stories about his life in India. I trusted him with my life. If I was five minutes late coming home he was worried. This is grooming, and this is love bombing. I was becoming addicted and dependent.
He taught me Yoga and meditation, but it dissolved as he was mainly talking to me about personal feelings and he seemed less the pious saint I was first drawn too, his personality changed drastically, he was becoming possessive, demanding, critical, screaming and insults were replacing the compliments he showered me with just months prior.
He started to say he would kill himself if I could not be with him, and he often cried over yahoo messenger, as he said that I ruined him completely. That at 60 years of age he never fell in love with a woman, and his whole life now was a wasteland and fraud. From laughing and sharing to tears and rage the next minute was now my dreaded daily talks with him, and I felt like a walking time bomb.
My life became a hellish nightmare. I was in some sort of shock and thinking like a robot.
I would jump if I heard the phone ring and would answer the phone trembling and shaking. One time when I answered, I heard what seemed a gun go off. He told me next time it would be real and pointed to his head. I was re-named as his “Ma Premswarupa” I was his private secretary, and everything came through me, he loved this, he felt like a King, and he wanted me to arrange a trip to the USA. He told me “when I come to the USA, I am not leaving without you.”
As things worsened (and believe me they did) the eventual break up was the most vicious and traumatizing occurrence in my life, in which I felt just left me for dead inside for a long time. What also died was the search for spirituality, as spirituality is very much like heroin to me. I am even careful to this day, in researching groups to kind of stop and take a breather as the fumes get toxic for me. I never looked back at the occult again, or was drawn to the carrot of “enlightenment.”
With the death of my spiritual identity of “Ma Premswarupa”, the former ghost of who I was, now haunted me, of who I was from innocent happier times, and what do you do when you are chased and hunted down by your own ghost?
I felt like Peter Pan trying to sew back his shadow. This is how I felt for years, and with no therapy, no help, I lost all my friends as when I was “Ma Prem” I was reborn in the image of Guru and became an asshole. My husband helped me and just having a routine, going to my job, doing regular things, wearing regular clothes, watching movies, reading about other topics. Each day, I became “Debra” again, one memory at a time and building new memories with people that got to know me and loved me.
I never thought in a million years I would be an anti-cult advocate, or have a magazine on cults or my own company. I wanted to forget about everything and just live out my life.
My ex-Guru finally found out and tried to threaten and blackmail me. He was hardly dead and is still kicking. He pulls this every few years, for money, for sex, or for control on women. I was just the flavor of the month.
One day I decided to take down all the blogs on him. Inside I lit a match and set fire to all of this, I walked away, purified by the fire and realized how I was going to live my life was my responsibility and on my own terms. I was no longer a victim, or a former victim, I was just “me” and I was okay with that. Ma Premswarupa never existed, she never died, just the illusion. What didn’t kill me didn’t make me stronger, it is what killed me that made me strong. ref
She works at:
Art is Heart Co-Founder/Producer · November 1, 2018 to present · Bristol, Florida
Axiological Atheist Managing Editor · September 11, 2018 to present
Global Goodwill Ambass June 10, 2018 to present · Orlando, Florida
Publicist · February 26,
Orlando Health EKG Monitor Technician · May 6, 1999 to present
Thinking Agenda, LLC Entepreneur · Orlando, FloridaOur official company Facebook page.
Thinking Agenda LLC presents Cults in Media, Publicity and Promotions Publicist · Orlando, Florida
Critical Minds Society Adminstrator · Orlando, Florida
Cults and Undue Influence Owns · Orlando, Florida
Thinking Agenda, LLC CEO · Orlando, Florida
Ethics and The Modern Guru MagazinePublisher · Orlando, Florida
Debra Van Neste is the COO of “Thinking Agenda” which publishes a journal on cults and critical thinking “Ethics and The Modern Guru” at www.GuruEthics.com
Debra Van Neste and CultsCults.com
Cult Journalism Thinking Agenda LLC
Debra Van Neste on Facebook
- Email devanovn@gmail.com
- Facebook http://facebook.com/cultsandrecovery
Art is Heart on Facebook by Debra Van Neste
What is Art is Heart?
“Art is Heart” is the theme for our new online support and educational art co-op for cult education awareness. Thinking Agenda, LLC, is founded by Steven and Debra Van Neste. We are collaborating with artists to facilitate and promote an art venue locally, online, and to open up the doors to welcome art as a place of healing and recovery.
Damien AtHope: Atheist-Humanist Philosopher & Pre-Historical Writer/Researcher at damien.marie.athope.com
All art above is by Damien Marie AtHope
Here is my Patreon to support what I do.
Damien Marie AtHope: Axiological Atheist, Anti-theist, Anti-religionist, Secular Humanist. Rationalist, Writer, Artist, Poet, Philosopher, Advocate, Activist, with schooling in Psychology (Bachelors of Arts Psychology from Ashford University) and Sociology as well as an Autodidact in Science, Archeology, Anthropology, and Philosophy. Damien Promotes Science, Realism, Axiology, Liberty, Justice, Ethics, Anarchism, Socialism, Progressivism, Liberalism, Philosophy, Psychology, Archaeology, and Anthropology; advocating for Sexual, Gender, Child, Secular, LGBTQIA+, Race, Class Rights,
I am virtuous to the vulnerable and champion justice, so valiantly, as I have experienced the hateful lash of unkindness and wish to champion its opposite, radical kindness in an unkind world, a sigh of true bravery. It seems that there are two main types of philosophers: Thinkers and Specialists, and I have always thought of myself as a thinker.
I am an activist and teaching in public is part of that endeavor. I wish to be “Servant Leader,” it really resonated with me and is a similar desire I have as a leader hoping to add other leaders and to be a student as well wanting to be a life learner open to expand and learn as well as put forth efforts to teach. I dig good people who are kind and want to help others, like me; together we will aid in building a flourishing humanity, we rise by helping each other. I like that kind of people as contacts they are helping make the world better as I try to do.
I create art, memes, quotes, writings, blogs, Facebook pages & groups, Youtube videos, and Public speaking events and/or activism events. Also, I create video chats with Intelligent/thoughtful people who are kind and are doing good things in the world as well as video chats with atheists or nontheists of course; to share ideas, debate/dialog or for empowerment. And I create videos with theists or agnostics to share ideas, debate/dialog or provide a place for learning/teaching.
Damien Marie AtHope (Axiological Atheist), an Axiological Atheist, with a Rationalist Persuasion, who Supports Anarcho-Humanism: https://damienmarieathope.com/2018/01/i-am-an-axiological-atheist-with-a-rationalist-persuasion-who-supports-anarcho-humanism/
I am a caring firebrand atheist, wishing to be hard on ideas but kind to people. And a Different Kind of Atheist:
“Axiological, Methodological, Anarchist, Universal Ethicist, Realist, and Rationalist” https://damienmarieathope.com/2015/08/a-different-kind-of-atheist/
To quickly understand Axiological Atheism, it is like humanistic anti-theism and anti-religionism with strong secularism.
My Writer Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/DamienMarieAtHope/
Personal Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100012093571404Axiological
Axiological Atheism can be thought to involve ethical/value theory reasoned and moral argument driven apatheism, ignosticism, atheism, anti-theism, anti-religionism, secularism, and humanism. Roughly understood axiological atheism = Strong Disbelief as well as Strong Secularism and Humanism.
Axiological Atheism Explained: https://damienmarieathope.com/2015/10/30/axiological-atheism-explained/
Axiological Atheist Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AxiologicalAtheist
Here are two of my blogs on the evolution of religion and the memes used are my art:
Understanding Religion Evolution: Animism, Totemism, Shamanism, Paganism & Progressed organized religion: https://damienmarieathope.com/2018/01/understanding-religion-evolution-animism-totemism-shamanism-paganism-progressed-organized-religion/
An Archaeological/Anthropological Understanding of Religion Evolution”: https://damienmarieathope.com/2018/08/an-archaeological-anthropological-understanding-of-the-understanding-religion-evolution/
Here is my atheist humanist art: “AtHope Wicked Designs” https://www.facebook.com/AtHope-Wicked-Designs-287913388398828/
Religious beliefs often don’t stay in the “belief” category, as if it is something chosen temporarily if needed or changeable if required. No, what is most common is that religious beliefs are completely infused to the person’s identity, thus it’s not what they believe it is more a factor of who they are. What this means is if they are later challenged and given reason to let the belief go this is largely disrupted because they and the belief are mixed with the person’s identity making its loss, not just a possible belief loss but a perceived personal identity loss. Faith is being inspired to
The turbulent seas of denial are ever crashing like a tsunami of avoidance on religion’s shores. With minds of cognitive decadence and intellectual dishonesty, they welcome this eroding of the religion-believers perceived need to change belief in the face of facts when they want to keep belief regardless. Thus, they joyfully dive in swimming deep under denials dark waters to the safety of blind ignorance.
Religions continuing in our modern world, full of science and facts, should be seen as little more than a set of irrational conspiracy theories of reality. Nothing more than a confused reality made up of unscientific echoes from man’s ancient past. Rational thinkers must ask themselves why continue to believe in religions’ stories. Religion myths which are nothing more than childlike stories and obsolete tales once used to explain how the world works, acting like magic was needed when it was always only nature.
These childlike religious stories should not even be taken seriously, but sadly too often they are. Often without realizing it, we accumulate beliefs that we allow to negatively influence our lives. In order to bring about awareness, we need to be willing to alter skewed beliefs. Rational thinkers must examine the facts instead of blindly following beliefs or faith.
Understanding Religion Evolution:
- Pre-Animism (at least 300,000 years ago)
- Animism (Africa: 100,000 years ago)
- Totemism (Europe: 50,000 years ago)
- Shamanism (Siberia: 30,000 years ago)
- Paganism (Turkey: 12,000 years ago)
- Progressed organized religion (Egypt: 5,000 years ago), (Egypt, the First Dynasty 5,150 years ago)
- CURRENT “World” RELIGIONS (after 4,000 years ago)
- Early Atheistic Doubting (at least by 2,600 years ago)
“An Archaeological/Anthropological Understanding of Religion Evolution”
If you are a religious believer, may I remind you that faith in the acquisition of knowledge is not a valid method worth believing in. Because, what proof is “faith”, of anything religion claims by faith, as many people have different faith even in the same religion?
- To Find Truth You Must First Look
- Archaeology Knowledge Challenge?
- Beware of Pseudo-History like the Claims of a Hammer in a 400 Million Year Old Rock
- The Evolution of Fire Sacralizing and/or Worship 1.5 million to 300,000 years ago and beyond?
- Stone Age Art: 500,000 – 233,000 Years Old
- Around 500,000 – 233,000 years ago, Oldest Anthropomorphic art (Pre-animism) is Related to Female
- 400,000 Years Old Sociocultural Evolution
- Pre-Animism: Portable Rock Art at least 300,000-year-old
- Homo Naledi and an Intentional Cemetery “Pre-Animism” dating to around 250,000 years ago?
- Neanderthals “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” Mystery Cave Rings 175,000 Years Ago
- Did Neanderthals teach us “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” 120,000 Years Ago?
- Animism: an approximately 100,000-year-old belief system?
- Rock crystal stone tools 75,000 Years Ago – (Spain) made by Neanderthals
- Stone Snake of South Africa: “first human worship” 70,000 years ago
- Similarities and differences in Animism and Totemism
- Did Neanderthals Help Inspire Totemism? Because there is Art Dating to Around 65,000 Years Ago in Spain?
- History of Drug Use with Religion or Sacred Rituals possibly 58,000 years ago?
- Totemism: an approximately 50,000-year-old belief system?
- Australia & Aboriginal Religion at least around 50,000 years old
- Modern Humans start around 50,000 years ago Helped by Feminisation
- Out of Africa: “the evolution of religion seems tied to the movement of people”
- Totemism and Shamanism Dispersal Theory Expressed around 50,000 to 30,000 years ago
- Early Proto-Writing 44,000 to 5,000 years ago with Unrealized Connections.
- Possible Religion Motivations in the First Cave Art at around 43,000 years ago?
- 40,000 years old Aurignacian Lion Figurine Early Totemism?
- 40,000-35,000 years ago “first seeming use of a Totem” ancestor, animal, and possible pre-goddess worship?
- Prehistoric Egypt 40,000 years ago to The First Dynasty 5,150 years ago
- 38,000 Years Old Engraving of an Aurochs with Seeming Totemism Expression?
- Stars: Ancestors, Spirit Animals, and Deities (around 6,000 years ago, with connections to shamanism at 30,000 years ago and possibly further back to 40,000 years ago with totemism)
- Prehistoric Child Burials Begin Around 34,000 Years Ago
- 34,000 years ago Lunar Calendar Cave art around the Time Shift From Totemism to Early Shamanism
- Early Shamanism around 34,000 to 20,000 years ago: Sungar (Russia) and Dolni Vestonice (Czech Republic)
- 31,000 – 20,000 years ago Oldest Shaman was Female, Buried with the Oldest Portrait Carving
- Shamanism: an approximately 30,000-year-old belief system
- Could the Phallus Phenomena (A Bull Horn) and the Shamanism Phenomena beginning around 30,000 years ago
- ‘Sky Burial’ theory and its possible origins at least 12,000 years ago to likely 30,000 years ago or older.
- The Peopling of the Americas Pre-Paleoindians/Paleoamericans around 30,000 to 12,000 years ago
- Could a Gravettian carving around 25,000 years old relate to Later Goddess and the Bull cults like Catal Huyuk
- Similarity in Shamanism?
- Black, White, and Yellow Shamanism?
- Shamanistic rock art from central Aboriginal Siberians and Aboriginal drums in the Americas
- Horned female shamans and Pre-satanism Devil/horned-god Worship?
- (Magdalenian/Iberomaurusian) Connections to the First Paganists of the early Neolithic Near East Dating from around 17,000 to 12,000 Years Ago
- Possible Clan Leader/Special “MALE” Ancestor Totem Poles At Least 13,500 years ago?
- Jewish People with DNA at least 13,200 years old, Judaism, and the Origins of Some of its Ideas
- Fertile Crescent 12,500 – 9,500 Years Ago: fertility and death cult belief system?
- 12,400 – 11,700 Years Ago – Kortik Tepe (Turkey) Pre/early-Agriculture Cultic Ritualism
- Gobekli Tepe: “first human-made temple” around 12,000 years ago.
- Could a 12000-year-old Bull Geoglyph at Göbekli Tepe relate to older Bull and Female Art 25,000 years ago and Later Goddess and the Bull cults like Catal Huyuk?
- Sedentism and the Creation of goddesses around 12,000 years ago as well as male gods after 7,000 years ago.
- Paganism: Goddesses around 12,000 years ago then Male Gods after 7,000 years ago
- First Patriarchy: Split of Women’s Status around 12,000 years ago & First Hierarchy: fall of Women’s Status around 5,000 years ago.
- Natufians: an Ancient People at the Origins of Agriculture and Sedentary Life
- J DNA and the Spread of Agricultural Religion (paganism)
- Paganism: an approximately 12,000-year-old belief system
- Shaman burial in Israel 12,000 years ago and the Shamanism Phenomena
- Need to Mythicized: gods and goddesses
- “36cu0190” a Historic and Prehistoric site in Pennsylvania
- 12,000 – 10,000 years old Shamanistic Art in a Remote Cave in Egypt
- 12,000 – 7,000 Years Ago – Paleo-Indian Culture (The Americas)
- 12,000 – 2,000 Years Ago – Indigenous-Scandinavians (Nordic)
- Norse did not wear helmets with horns?
- Pre-Pottery Neolithic Skull Cult around 11,500 to 8,400 Years Ago?
- Catal Huyuk “first religious designed city” around 9,500 to 7,700 years ago (Turkey)
- 9,000-8500 year old Horned Female shaman Bad Dürrenberg Germany
- 8,600-year-old Tortoise Shells in Neolithic graves in central China have Early Writing and Shamanism
- The First Expression of the Male God around 7,000 years ago?
- Kurgan 6,000 years ago/dolmens 7,000 years ago: funeral, ritual, and other?
- Connected “dolmen phenomenon” of above-ground stone burial structures?
- 6,500–5,800 years ago in Israel Late Chalcolithic (Copper Age) Period in the Southern Levant Seems to Express Northern Levant Migrations, Cultural and Religious Transfer
- “The Ghassulian Star,” a mysterious 6,000-year-old mural from Jordan; a Proto-Star of Ishtar, Star of Inanna or Star of Venus?
- 5-600-year-old Tomb, Mummy, and First Bearded Male Figurine in a Grave
- Evolution Of Science at least by 5,500 years ago
- 5,500 Years old birth of the State, the rise of Hierarchy, and the fall of Women’s status
- “Jiroft culture” 5,100 – 4,200 years ago and the History of Iran
- Progressed organized religion starts, an approximately 5,000-year-old belief system
- Origin of Logics is Naturalistic Observation at least by around 5,000 years ago.
- Ziggurats (multi-platform temples: 4,900 years old) to Pyramids (multi-platform tombs: 4,700 years old)
- 42 Principles Of Maat (Egyptian Goddess of the justice) around 4,400 years ago, 2000 Years Before Ten Commandments
- “Happy Easter” Well Happy Eostre/Ishter
- 4,250 to 3,400 Year old Stonehenge from Russia: Arkaim?
- When was the beginning: TIMELINE OF CURRENT RELIGIONS, which start around 4,000 years ago.
- Kultepe? An archaeological site with a 4,000 years old women’s rights document.
- Single God Religions (Monotheism) = “Man-o-theism” started around 4,000 years ago with the Great Sky Spirit/God Tiān (天)?
- Confucianism’s Tiān (Shangdi god 4,000 years old): Supernaturalism, Pantheism or Theism?
- Yes, Your Male God is Ridiculous
- Prototype of Ancient Analemmatic Sundials around 3,900-3,150 years ago and a Possible Solar Connection to gods?
- The Weakening of Ancient Trade and the Strengthening of Religions around 3000 years ago?
- Are you aware that there are religions that worship women gods, explain now religion tears women down?
- Animistic, Totemistic, and Paganistic Superstition Origins of bible god and the bible’s Religion.
- Jews, Judaism, and the Origins of Some of its Ideas
- An Old Branch of Religion Still Giving Fruit: Sacred Trees
- Dating the BIBLE: naming names and telling times (written less than 3,000 years ago, provable to 2,200 years ago)
- Did a Volcano Inspire the bible god?
- No “dinosaurs and humans didn’t exist together just because some think they are in the bible itself”
- Everyone Killed in the Bible Flood? “Nephilim” (giants)?
- Hey, Damien dude, I have a question for you regarding “the bible” Exodus.
- Archaeology Disproves the Bible
- Bible Battle, Just More, Bible Babble
- The Jericho Conquest lie?
- Canaanites and Israelites?
- Archaeology Knowledge Challenge?
- Accurate Account on how did Christianity Began?
- Let’s talk about Christianity.
- So the 10 commandments isn’t anything to go by either right?
- Misinformed christian
- Debunking Jesus?
- Paulism vs Jesus
- Ok, you seem confused so let’s talk about Buddhism.
- Unacknowledged Buddhism: Gods, Savior, Demons, Rebirth, Heavens, Hells, and Terrorism
- His Foolishness The Dalai Lama
- Yin and Yang is sexist with an ORIGIN around 2,300 years ago?
- I Believe Archaeology, not Myths & Why Not, as the Religious Myths Already Violate Reason!
- Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense.
- Aquatic Ape Theory/Hypothesis? As Always, Just Pseudoscience.
- Ancient Aliens Conspiracy Theorists are Pseudohistorians
- The Pseudohistoric and Pseudoscientific claims about “Bakoni Ruins” of South Africa
- Why do people think Religion is much more than supernaturalism and superstitionism?
- Religion is an Evolved Product
- Was the Value of Ancient Women Different?
- 1000 to 1100 CE, human sacrifice Cahokia Mounds a pre-Columbian Native American site
- Feminist atheists as far back as the 1800s?
- Promoting Religion as Real is Mentally Harmful to a Flourishing Humanity
- Screw All Religions and Their Toxic lies, they are all fraud
- Forget Religions’ Unfounded Myths, I Have Substantiated “Archaeology Facts.”
- Religion Dispersal throughout the World
- I Hate Religion Just as I Hate all Pseudoscience
- Exposing Scientology, Eckankar, Wicca and Other Nonsense?
- Main deity or religious belief systems
- Quit Trying to Invent Your God From the Scraps of Science.
- Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense.
- Empiricism-Denier?
“An Archaeological/Anthropological Understanding of Religion Evolution
Pre-Animism (at least 300,000 years ago)
Around a million years ago, I surmise that Pre-Animism, “animistic superstitionism”, began, Around 400,000 Years ago shows Sociocultural Evolution, and then led to the animistic somethingism or animistic supernaturalism, which is at least 300,000 years old and about 100,00 years ago, it evolves to a representation of general Animism, which is present in today’s religions. There is also Homo Naledi and an Intentional Cemetery “Pre-Animism” dating to around 250,000 years ago. And, Neanderthals “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” Mystery Cave Rings 175,000 Years Ago. Neanderthals were the first humans to intentionally bury the dead, around 130,000 years ago at sites such as Krapina in Croatia.
Pre-animism ideas can be seen in rock art such as that expressed in portable anthropomorphic art, which may be related to some kind of ancestor veneration. This magical thinking may stem from a social or non-religious function of ancestor veneration, which cultivates kinship values such as filial piety, family loyalty, and continuity of the family lineage. Ancestor veneration occurs in societies with every degree of social, political, and technological complexity and it remains an important component of various religious practices in modern times.
Humans are not the only species, which bury their dead. The practice has been observed in chimpanzees, elephants, and possibly dogs. Intentional burial, particularly with grave goods, signify a “concern for the dead” and Neanderthals were the first human species to practice burial behavior and intentionally bury their dead, doing so in shallow graves along with stone tools and animal bones. Exemplary sites include Shanidar in Iraq, Kebara Cave in Israel and Krapina in Croatia. The earliest undisputed human burial dates back 100,000 years ago with remains stained with red ochre, which show ritual intentionality similar to the Neanderthals before them. ref, ref
Animism (such as that seen in Africa: 100,000 years ago)
Did Neanderthals teach us “Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism?)” 120,000 Years Ago? Homo sapiens – is known to have reached the Levant between 120,000 and 90,000 years ago, but that exit from Africa evidently went extinct. 100,000 years ago, in Qafzeh, Israel, the oldest intentional burial had 15 African individuals covered in red ocher was from a group who visited and returned back to Africa. 100,000 to 74,000 years ago, at Border Cave in Africa, an intentional burial of an infant with red ochre and a shell ornament, which may have possible connections to the Africans buried in Qafzeh.
Animism is approximately a 100,000-year-old belief system and believe in spirit-filled life and/or afterlife. If you believe like this, regardless of your faith, you are a hidden animist.
The following is evidence of Animism: 100,000 years ago, in Qafzeh, Israel, the oldest intentional burial had 15 African individuals covered in red ocher was from a group who visited and returned back to Africa. 100,000 to 74,000 years ago, at Border Cave in Africa, an intentional burial of an infant with red ochre and a shell ornament, which may have possible connections to the Africans buried in Qafzeh, Israel. 120,000 years ago, did Neanderthals teach us Primal Religion (Pre-Animism/Animism) as they too used red ocher and burials? ref, ref
It seems to me, it may be the Neanderthals who may have transmitted a “Primal Religion (Animism)” or at least burial and thoughts of an afterlife. The Neanderthals seem to express what could be perceived as a Primal “type of” Religion, which could have come first and is supported in how 250,000 years ago, the Neanderthals used red ochre and 230,000 years ago shows evidence of Neanderthal burial with grave goods and possibly a belief in the afterlife. ref
Do you think it is crazy that the Neanderthals may have transmitted a “Primal Religion”? Consider this, it appears that 175,000 years ago, the Neanderthals built mysterious underground circles with broken off stalactites. This evidence suggests that the Neanderthals were the first humans to intentionally bury the dead, doing so in shallow graves along with stone tools and animal bones. Exemplary sites include Shanidar in Iraq, Kebara Cave in Israel and Krapina in Croatia. Other evidence may suggest the Neanderthals had it transmitted to them by Homo heidelbergensis, 350,000 years ago, by their earliest burial in a shaft pit grave in a cave that had a pink stone axe on the top of 27 Homo heidelbergensis individuals and 250,000 years ago, Homo naledi had an intentional cemetery in South Africa cave. ref, ref, ref, ref, ref
Totemism (Europe: 50,000 years ago)
Did Neanderthals Help Inspire Totemism? Because there is Art Dating to Around 65,000 Years Ago in Spain? Totemism as seen in Europe: 50,000 years ago, mainly the Aurignacian culture. Pre-Aurignacian “Châtelperronian” (Western Europe, mainly Spain and France, possible transitional/cultural diffusion between Neanderthals and Humans around 50,000-40,000 years ago). Archaic–Aurignacian/Proto-Aurignacian Humans (Europe around 46,000-35,000). And Aurignacian “classical/early to late” Humans (Europe and other areas around 38,000 – 26,000 years ago).
Totemism is approximately a 50,000-year-old belief system and believe in spirit-filled life and/or afterlife that can be attached to or be expressed in things or objects. If you believe like this, regardless of your faith, you are a hidden totemist.
Toetmism may be older as there is evidence of what looks like a Stone Snake in South Africa, which may be the “first human worship” dating to around 70,000 years ago. Many archaeologists propose that societies from 70,000 to 50,000 years ago such as that of the Neanderthals may also have practiced the earliest form of totemism or animal worship in addition to their presumably religious burial of the dead. Did Neanderthals help inspire Totemism? There is Neanderthals art dating to around 65,000 years ago in Spain. ref, ref
Shamanism (beginning around 30,000 years ago)
Shamanism (such as that seen in Siberia Gravettian culture: 30,000 years ago). Gravettian culture (34,000–24,000 years ago; Western Gravettian, mainly France, Spain, and Britain, as well as Eastern Gravettian in Central Europe and Russia. The eastern Gravettians, which include the Pavlovian culture). And, the Pavlovian culture (31,000 – 25,000 years ago such as in Austria and Poland). 31,000 – 20,000 years ago Oldest Shaman was Female, Buried with the Oldest Portrait Carving.
Shamanism is approximately a 30,000-year-old belief system and believe in spirit-filled life and/or afterlife that can be attached to or be expressed in things or objects and these objects can be used by special persons or in special rituals that can connect to spirit-filled life and/or afterlife. If you believe like this, regardless of your faith, you are a hidden shamanist.
Around 29,000 to 25,000 years ago in Dolní Vestonice, Czech Republic, the oldest human face representation is a carved ivory female head that was found nearby a female burial and belong to the Pavlovian culture, a variant of the Gravettian culture. The left side of the figure’s face was a distorted image and is believed to be a portrait of an elder female, who was around 40 years old. She was ritualistically placed beneath a pair of mammoth scapulae, one leaning against the other. Surprisingly, the left side of the skull was disfigured in the same manner as the aforementioned carved ivory figure, indicating that the figure was an intentional depiction of this specific individual. The bones and the earth surrounding the body contained traces of red ocher, a flint spearhead had been placed near the skull, and one hand held the body of a fox. This evidence suggests that this was the burial site of a shaman. This is the oldest site not only of ceramic figurines and artistic portraiture but also of evidence of early female shamans. Before 5,500 years ago, women were much more prominent in religion.
Archaeologists usually describe two regional variants: the western Gravettian, known namely from cave sites in France, Spain, and Britain, and the eastern Gravettian in Central Europe and Russia. The eastern Gravettians include the Pavlovian culture, which were specialized mammoth hunters and whose remains are usually found not in caves but in open air sites. The origins of the Gravettian people are not clear, they seem to appear simultaneously all over Europe. Though they carried distinct genetic signatures, the Gravettians and Aurignacians before them were descended from the same ancient founder population. According to genetic data, 37,000 years ago, all Europeans can be traced back to a single ‘founding population’ that made it through the last ice age. Furthermore, the so-called founding fathers were part of the Aurignacian culture, which was displaced by another group of early humans members of the Gravettian culture. Between 37,000 years ago and 14,000 years ago, different groups of Europeans were descended from a single founder population. To a greater extent than their Aurignacian predecessors, they are known for their Venus figurines. ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, & ref
Paganism (beginning around 12,000 years ago)
Paganism (such as that seen in Turkey: 12,000 years ago). Gobekli Tepe: “first human-made temple” around 12,000 years ago. Sedentism and the Creation of goddesses around 12,000 years ago as well as male gods after 7,000 years ago. Pagan-Shaman burial in Israel 12,000 years ago and 12,000 – 10,000 years old Paganistic-Shamanistic Art in a Remote Cave in Egypt. Skull Cult around 11,500 to 8,400 Years Ago and Catal Huyuk “first religious designed city” around 10,000 years ago.
Paganism is approximately a 12,000-year-old belief system and believe in spirit-filled life and/or afterlife that can be attached to or be expressed in things or objects and these objects can be used by special persons or in special rituals that can connect to spirit-filled life and/or afterlife and who are guided/supported by a goddess/god, goddesses/gods, magical beings, or supreme spirits. If you believe like this, regardless of your faith, you are a hidden paganist.
Around 12,000 years ago, in Turkey, the first evidence of paganism is Gobekli Tepe: “first human-made temple” and around 9,500 years ago, in Turkey, the second evidence of paganism is Catal Huyuk “first religious designed city”. In addition, early paganism is connected to Proto-Indo-European language and religion. Proto-Indo-European religion can be reconstructed with confidence that the gods and goddesses, myths, festivals, and form of rituals with invocations, prayers, and songs of praise make up the spoken element of religion. Much of this activity is connected to the natural and agricultural year or at least those are the easiest elements to reconstruct because nature does not change and because farmers are the most conservative members of society and are best able to keep the old ways.
The reconstruction of goddesses/gods characteristics may be different than what we think of and only evolved later to the characteristics we know of today. One such characteristic is how a deity’s gender may not be fixed, since they are often deified forces of nature, which tend to not have genders. There are at least 40 deities and the Goddesses that have been reconstructed are: *Pria, *Pleto, *Devi, *Perkunos, *Aeusos, and *Yama.
The reconstruction of myths can be connected to Proto-Indo-European culture/language and by additional research, many of these myths have since been confirmed including some areas that were not accessible to the early writers such as Latvian folk songs and Hittite hieroglyphic tablets. There are at least 28 myths and one of the most widely recognized myths of the Indo-Europeans is the myth, “Yama is killed by his brother Manu” and “the world is made from his body”. Some of the forms of this myth in various Indo-European languages are about the Creation Myth of the Indo-Europeans.
The reconstruction of rituals can be connected to Proto-Indo-European culture/language and is estimated to have been spoken as a single language from around 6,500 years ago. One of the earliest ritual is the construction of kurgans or mound graves as a part of a death ritual. kurgans were inspired by common ritual-mythological ideas. Kurgans are complex structures with internal chambers. Within the burial chamber at the heart of the kurgan, elite individuals were buried with grave goods and sacrificial offerings, sometimes including horses and chariots.
The speakers of Pre-Proto-Indo-European lived in Turkey and it associates the distribution of historical Indo-European languages with the expansion around 9,000 years ago, with a proposed homeland of Proto-Indo-European proper in the Balkans around 7,000 years ago. The Proto-Indo-European Religion seemingly stretches at least back around 6,000 years ago or likely much further back and I believe Paganism is possibly an approximately 12,000-year-old belief system.
The earliest kurgans date to 6,000 years ago and are connected to the Proto-Indo-European in the Caucasus. In fact, around 7,000 years ago, there appears to be pre-kurgan in Siberia. Around 7,000 to 2,500 years ago and beyond, kurgans were built with ancient traditions still active in Southern Siberia and Central Asia, which display the continuity of the archaic forming methods. Kurgan cultures are divided archaeologically into different sub-cultures such as Timber Grave, Pit Grave, Scythian, Sarmatian, Hunnish, and Kuman–Kipchak. Kurgans have been found from the Altay Mountains to the Caucasus, Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaria. Around 5,000 years ago, kurgans were used in the Ukrainian and Russian flat unforested grasslands and their use spread with migration into eastern, central, northern Europe, Turkey, and beyond. ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, ref, & ref
Progressed organized religion (around 5,000 years ago)
Progressed organized religion (such as that seen in Egypt: 5,000 years ago “The First Dynasty dates to 5,150 years ago”). This was a time of astonishing religion development and organization with a new state power to control. Around the time of 5,000 to 4,000 years ago, saw the growth of these riches, both intellectually and physically, became a source of contention on a political stage, and rulers sought the accumulation of more wealth and more power.
*The First Dynasty*
Date: 3,150 B.C.E. (5,150 years ago)
The Beginning Rise of the Unequal State Government Hierarchies, Religions and Cultures Merger
The Pharaoh in ancient Egypt was the political and religious leader holding the titles ‘Lord of the Two Lands’ Upper and Lower Egypt and ‘High Priest of Every Temple’. In 5,150 years ago the First Dynasty appeared in Egypt and this reign was thought to be in accordance with the will of the gods; but the office of the king itself was not associated with the divine until later.
Around 4,890 years ago during the Second Dynasty, the King was linked with the divine and reign with the will of the gods. Following this, rulers of the later dynasties were equated with the gods and with the duties and obligations due to those gods. As supreme ruler of the people, the pharaoh was considered a god on earth, the intermediary between the gods and the people, and when he died, he was thought to become Osiris, the god of the dead. As such, in his role of ‘High Priest of Every Temple’, it was the pharaoh’s duty to build great temples and monuments celebrating his own achievements and paying homage to the gods of the land. Among the earliest civilizations that exhibit the phenomenon of divinized kings are early Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt.
In 5,150 years ago the First Dynasty appeared in Egypt with the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt by the king Menes (now believed to be Narmer). Menes/Narmer is depicted on inscriptions wearing the two crowns of Egypt, signifying unification, and his reign was thought to be in accordance with the will of the gods; but the office of the king itself was not associated with the divine until later. During the Second Dynasty of Egypt 4,890-4,670 years ago King Raneb (also known as Nebra) linked his name with the divine and his reign with the will of the gods. Following Raneb, the rulers of the later dynasties were equated with the gods and with the duties and obligations due to those gods. As supreme ruler of the people, the pharaoh was considered a god on earth.
The honorific title of `pharaoh’ for a ruler did not appear until the period known as the New Kingdom 3,570-3,069 years ago. Monarchs of the dynasties before the title of `pharaoh’ from the New Kingdom were addressed as `your majesty’ by foreign dignitaries and members of the court and as `brother’ by foreign rulers; both practices would continue after the king of Egypt came to be known as a pharaoh. Ref Ref
CURRENT “World” RELIGIONS (after 4,000 years ago)
Hinduism around 3,700 to 3,500 years old. Judaism around 3,450 or 3,250 years old. (The first writing in the bible was “Paleo-Hebrew” dated to around 3,000 years ago). Jainism around 2,599 – 2,527 years old. Confucianism around 2,600 – 2,551 years old. Buddhism around 2,563/2,480 – 2,483/2,400 years old. Christianity around 2,000 years old. Shinto around 1,305 years old. Islam around 1407–1385 years old. Sikhism around 548–478 years old. Bahá’í around 200–125 years old.
Early Atheistic Doubting (at least by around 2,600 Years Ago)
Around 2,600 Years Ago, there is a confirmation of atheistic doubting as well as atheistic thinking, mainly by Greek philosophers. However, doubting gods is likely as old as the invention of gods and should destroy the thinking that belief in god(s) is the “default belief”. The Greek word is apistos (a “not” and pistos “faithful,”), thus not faithful or faithless because one is unpersuaded and unconvinced by a god(s) claim. Short Definition: unbelieving, unbeliever, or unbelief.
If you are a religious believer, may I remind you that faith in the acquisition of knowledge is not a valid method worth believing
Religion is an Evolved Product”
What we don’t understand we can come to fear. That which we fear we often learn to hate. Things we hate we usually seek to destroy. It is thus upon us to try and understand the unknown or unfamiliar not letting fear drive us into the unreasonable arms of hate and harm.
I am an Out Atheist, Antitheist, and Antireligionist as a Valuized Ethical Duty.
How can we silently watch as yet another generation is indoctrinated with religious faith, fear, and foolishness? Religion and it’s god myths are like a spiritually transmitted disease of the mind. This infection even once cured holds mental disruption which can linger on for a lifetime. What proof is “faith,” of anything religion claims by faith, as many people have different faith even in the same religion?
When you start thinking your “out, atheism, antitheism or antireligionism is not vitally needed just remember all the millions of children being indoctrinated and need our help badly. Ones who desperately need our help with the truth. Three things are common in all religions: “pseudo-science,” “pseudo-history,” and “pseudo-morality.”
And my biggest thing of all is the widespread forced indoctrination of children, violating their free choice of what to not believe or believe, I hate forced hereditary religion.
Sometimes a heart of kindness is all I have,
my only weapon to fight for the humanity in a world which is seemly intent on harm.
“Damien, how can you be so nice and kind?” – Questioner
My response, It is very hard indeed but it also shows high character and is to me, an act of courage to be kind in an unkind world. But I am not this world, I aspire to much greater higher-heights. I reject this worlds unkindness. I fight for what is true, helpful, good and right. All themes needed for universal betterment and human flourishing. I fight for people not against them. I wish to be a friend to the world, as you can better persuade people with an open hand then angry words.
I appeal to their reason as a helpful counselor, mentor, or teacher that would see their possible frustration as a thing in them, not truly a thing meant for me. I know we cannot change things with more of the same.
Rather, we must be the hope and changes so profound that t is like we are no longer holding a reality position of the strife before us. This is because we have the skill to aid others, the gift of human kindness as with that we are the most effective. And to me, kindness is invaluable. I just never stop seeing others as equal dignity beings. We rise by helping each other.
“Damien, in My atheist videos, I can’t do the kind thing I watch you do in every video, which is, I never see anger from you. How can you do it?” – Questioner
My Response, I think of my goal which to help others and doing that I can better control my feelings. I do get angry often but I strive to not express that in my behavior. I wish to be a friend to the world. It has been a life’s work, years of counseling and self-improvement. I now see the value of kindness.
As an axiological atheist, I understand and utilize value or actually “Value Consciousness” to both give a strong moral “axiological” argument (the problem of evil) as well as use it to fortify my humanism and positive ethical persuasion of human helping and care. Value-blindness gives rise to sociopathic evil.
I was asked how did I come to atheism?
“I was Christian for 35 years, read the bible twice, and took two religious classes before realizing the conclusion of atheism.”
“Damien, I think it is difficult to jump from 100% theist to 100% atheist directly, and being agnostic is a comfortable place to examine the arguments. What about you? Weren’t you
My response, I was Christian for 35 years, read the bible twice, and took two religious classes before realizing the conclusion of atheism. I went from 100% belief in theism to 100% atheist though at first I also believed in a godless afterlife, ghosts, and called myself a spiritual atheist. the no
I was raised in non-denominational evangelical/pentecostal Christian. I was such until I was about 35 years old (2006), I never even doubted god and never had an atheist friend I knew of nor did I even want to know anything about atheism. How I changed was in college learning science and most of all taking a competitive religion class learning things about other religions I had never even cared to ask just beloved they where all wrong only Christian was right.
Then I finally stopped believing in all religion with my class on understanding the bible. Halfway through that class, I stop all belief in god and though did not know it nor even understand the word I had become an atheist. I have been working hard at becoming informed since then.
My Atheism: “Axiological Atheism”
Yes, I was a undoubting Christian until the age of 35 years old, while in my second religious studies classes and so you know I have read the entire bible twice before I ever took the two college classes on religion and the bible before realizing I was an atheist; I was a very superstitious supernaturalist as well as a strong theist not even once did I think to doubt or even question. I am sad to say I was not much of a rationalist now that is my driving force. Now, I question everything and think through almost everything.
*One was a class on the top world religions using the book (Living Religions: A Brief Introduction) http://books.google.com/books/about/Living_Religions.html?id=ITnlAAAAMAAJ
*The other class on the
Turning
In the middle of the class on the
he Devil?
The Bibles clear teaching is that the wages of sin
The devil is not satin. It is interesting to note that in the detailed record of
Matthew 6:10 If
For example: Riches are personified (Matt 6:24)Sin is personified (Romans 5:21, 6:16)Death is personified (Revelation 6:8)Nation of Israel personified (Jeremiah 31:4, 18)Believers in Christ are personified (Ephesians 4:13, 1 Corinthians 12:27)The Holy Spirit is personified (John 16:13) Thus we shall see that the original words for “devil” and “satan” are descriptive and not titles and these words are simply used or personified to express this idea of sin in different forms. For more on this read: http://www.the-gospel-truth.info/bible-teachings/the-true-identity-of-the-devil-satan/
And you should also need to know the serpent, Lucifer, and
The name “Lucifer” is referring to the king of Babylon as “the morning star” not supernatural being and not the Devil or Satan. To read more on how “Lucifer” is not Satan: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1091 So, get this if I did not make it clear enough, even within the
Satanism More or Less?
Losing My Religion
So what changed?
The beginning of the change was getting a bachelor of arts in Psychology, grasping critical thinking, rational analysis, universal ethics, and the need of proof. However, the true starting point was Biology. In essence, learning that we all begin as female and it takes specific processes to turn into a male. But what fully made me “change” was two classes on religion the first comparative religions the second understanding the bible halfway through that class I stopped believing.
So, I thought, if a woman was created first then the
I started using a new rationale to analyze the bible and not accepting it as truth outright. I thought how positive would we view a parent who puts a 2 years old child next to a cookie jar and tells them not to eat any cookies. Then not only punish them for the rest of their life but to every generation to the end of time for an action they did not understand. No parent would be seen as just. Even the Bible says we should forgive after 7 years and how can it be justified to punish everyone who is guiltless for the action of one even if they did understand. That would not be convictable in any court anywhere in the world.
Yet, we are taught to praise a god who did just that. I could go on and on about my views on the Bible and Christianity but I will end with one statement. The bible touts that the most important thing is the word. The word is so important that God himself wrote on stone with a lightening finger. Yet, we are to believe that Jesus comes to earth and does not write a word. Was he illiterate? If he was, how could he be God? Jesus never asked anyone to write anything more in the Torah. Maybe he just forgot since he was so busy or maybe he was not God. He had 12 disciples; why did not all of
Instead, they too are silent. If Jesus and his disciples were silent, maybe he was not god. Of if he was God, maybe he was silent because the Torah was already perfect. That would make the Christian Bible heresy.
Jesus Christ “Wanted” for producing the hate and fear literature, the so-called “Holy Bible?”
This is like blaming Frankenstein’s monster for Mary Shelley writing Frankenstein. He had nothing whatsoever to do with the bible, even according to the traditional Christian account.
“The NT was not written by the time he allegedly died, so you can’t be referring to the NT. But just the Tanakh is not what people usually mean when they say “holy bible,” but rather Tanakh + NT, so this meme is inaccurate regardless of whether the historical Jesus supported the Tanakh. – Challenger
My response, and the Tanakh is rich with hate and fear literature, so yes he is indeed responsible for that so try again.
“You’re just repeating yourself now. I already specified why this meme is inaccurate. If you want to keep it up, that’s on your intellectual integrity to share false information, but I would delete it because I have intellectual integrity. And anyway, you didn’t say “WANTED: for SUPPORTING the Holy Bible,” but rather for “producing” it, which is just ridiculous. He did not write any of it either. This meme is just all kinds of falseness wrapped in a bundle. I see you criticize theists all the time for not being truthful. Do you not hold yourself to the same standard?” – Challenger
My response, see you still are the one inaccurate as the bible contains the old testament and jesus in only found in the new testament so your argument is beyond odd to say one cannot refer to the new testament the only place we would even know about the jesus character and in which irt is claimed to have not stayed dead and thus returned to the god state which was then claimed to continue to influence the bible so yes he is responsible by the bible itself. So, I need to hear a better argument from you than jesus id not responsible for the bible.
“Jesus could not have supported or “produced” the NT because every shred of it was written AFTER he allegedly died. That should be obvious, but your typo-filled run-on sentences do not establish the contrary. For someone who doesn’t think Jesus is god, this is just a dumb argument to suppose that he is in order to criticize him. It’s like giving something with one hand and taking it away with the other. Anyhow, you are not coming off as very intelligent here. Honestly, quite the contrary. Is it too much to ask that if you are going to produce antitheist memes, that you don’t inject the belief in god into them first (a very strange stance to take, but then you defend it)? You are a muddled mess, and it’s like you’ve never even pondered what it is you’re trying to accomplish on a pragmatic level.” – Challenger
My response, so no good argument to support your claim that the bible is not influenced by god/jesus?
Produce a meme against the belief in god, but then inject the belief in god into it, so that it’s only construed to be accurate if god exists? That is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of in the atheist community, FYI. Yes, god and Jesus don’t exist. No need to have fictional characters produce or support or influence anything. If that’s not enough, then I have nothing more to offer.” – Challenger
My response, don’t you know you need more than empty claims that don’t prove your point that the general believers do not think the bible is not inspired by god/jesus?
“My estimation of your IQ just dropped by 35 points. How is it an empty claim if you also don’t believe god exists. Are you going to tell me that I need to somehow argue to you that god does not exist for this post to be inaccurate?” – Challenger
My response, this is one of the oddest things I have heard that someone would try to say that the general believers do not think the bible is not inspired by god/
“That is correct in terms of what Christians believe. They are, furthermore, comfortably ensconced in those beliefs in Jesus and god and the bible. The point of an atheist producing a meme against Christianity is to influence believers to not believe in Christianity as much, or otherwise, it’s a circle-jerk between atheists, if atheists are the only intended audience. But an atheist producing a meme which takes fundamental Christian tenets to be pre-suppositionally true is not going to be effective because it does not push Christians to go outside their comfort zones.
Before the meme, they thought Jesus is god and god exists and the bible is true. And the meme MAKES this same argument and so after the meme they are going to think Jesus is god and god exists and the bible is true. This is basic pragmatics, which obviously Damien has not studied via his auto-didacticism. So, yes, it is just a big atheist circle-jerk. I guess it’s too much to ask for an atheist to create and share memes which don’t take fundamental Christian beliefs as accurate. I mean, what would the world have to come to for that obvious point to have to be implemented?” – Challenger
My response, it was to point out two truths you are seemingly not wishing to address, like how it’s a wanted poster so it’s pointing out
And as we stand is you tried to do a red herring logical fallacy trying to turn it to my education, then your ad hominem attack just for fun I guess and yet with all your believed superior to me talk are inferior in an argument where it counts my friend. I must wonder if you now see you were wrong as still have not addressed your continual weak argument that is not yet supported as you still don’t have a support that jesus/god is not responsible for inspiring the bible.
jESUS (a fake story) explained as a real bigot but not a
21 Leaving that place, jESUS withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “lord,(yahweh) son of david, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” 23 jESUS did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” 25 The woman came and knelt before him. “lord, help me!” she said. 26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then jESUS said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment. Ps. elohim occurs frequently as well as the later creation name yahweh, both are used throughout the Torah to mean gOD.
*My Commentary Matthew 15:21-28
A truly moral person would have simply healed the child the first time and not threw a racial slur at her. I do find it amusing that after she begs him, he conceded and referenced her faith for it? As opposed to her use of reason as she did. Jesus the so-called god or love for everyone was very disrespectful in his statement for no other reason than to be at the least thoughtless to the suffering of a child no evidence of love there. It was looking down on her as if she is a lowly sub-human and the child never mattered not even as a factor when he is said to finally become persuaded to heal the child.
So, if we are gracious jESUS was heartless to the suffering of some but if we take it for what it looks like he was a hateful bigot that in no way cared about all the people of the world, not even the children. Here are some more great examples of how jESUS is not all good, nor all loving neither does he care about everyone on earth other than the jews. Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.” – jESUS
Matthew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” – jESUS Yes, you heard/read that right, jesus only came for the Israelites, stated in his own words and as stated undeniably already. Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” – jESUS
You believe you know jESUS. The lie called the bible is full of contradictions thousands of them so what you think you know depends on which lie you choose to remember. You do not know, you believe because of faith and think that feeling is knowing, but you are mistaken. You need to learn how to form justified beliefs, and faith is not it. If jESUS was gOD, he would have sought worship for himself would he not? Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not gOD. Verses in the bible say Jesus is not gOD The bible says that Jesus denied he is gOD.
jESUS spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except gOD alone.’ (Luke 18:19) And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17) jESUS did not teach people that he was gOD. If Jesus had been telling people that he was gOD, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was gOD.
*The Bible says that gOD is greater than jESUS?
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29) *Jesus cannot be gOD, if gOD is greater than him. The christian belief that the father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from jESUS. jESUS never instructed his disciples to worship him. ‘When you pray, say our father which art in heaven.’ (Luke 11:2)‘In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.’ (John 16:23)‘The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.’ (John 4:23)
*Is jESUS equal to or lesser than gOD? JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.JOH 14:28 I go unto the Father: for my father is greater than I.How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the christ?By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)
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*jESUS’ first sermon plain or mount? MAT 5:1,2: “And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying….”LUK 6:17,20: “And he came down with
*Whom did they see at the tomb? MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the
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*Would
*When
*Did Herod think that
*Did John the Baptist recognize
*Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism? Yes (John 1:32, 33)No (Matthew 11:2)
*I could go on there is much more but some will say I am using man’s wisdom not god’s mysterious ways. So, is the bible in
I hear all the time but did you read the
* Read the bible, you mean the book of dogmatic propaganda. Yes, sadly I have. I read two versions of the bible, the King James and the NIV. I have read history, anthropology, and archeology of world religions and understood right thinking because of philosophy. I know a lot, I don’t claim to know everything but certainly enough to firmly know religion and gods are myths. I could list countless scriptures to contradict the
The Evolution of Religion and Removing the Rationale of Faith
I am unplugged from the faith Matrix? The matrix is all the biases, values, morals, stereotypes, beliefs, judgments, and requirements that society and religion mythologies force upon us. The faith matrix of religion tells us how to act, think, and behave, what is right or wrong, and good or bad. The religion matrix is often the heartstring of every culture. It forces upon us what it feels as right and never caring about what we really need. The matrix binds us and confines who we really are.
How did I unplug from the religious and god matrix?
The first and most crucial element that must be grasped and lived wholeheartedly to be removed from the matrix and stay unplugged is the unilateral valuing of women, the way they think, and their gift of being to the world. Without this understanding of women, one can never be removed from the matrix. The matrix is male-dominated in its width and breath and in the movie “The Matrix” movie all the agents were men. Equality in power in important and how men and women do this is often different. Women under stress are more prone to tend and befriend then fight or flight and in our modern society, this is of higher need. I am not saying this is only limited to women as there
If you have a country or people who allow or support torture, mostly such a country is one that women are not equal or valued and are oppressed. It’s not the only factor but they do tend to go together. The greatest unused asset occurring in the world that is untapped and could help solve many of the world’s problems is women. I have and do value women and am an anarcho-feminist. Another key aspect is to remove religion. I started to unplug myself when I removed religion mythologies its pseudoscience, pseudohistory as well as its pseudo-morality and replaced them with real science, history, ethics, and axiology.
An ethics and axiological value removed from god deluded morals and sin. I no longer have religious morals which are pseudo-moral judgments and sin which is a condemnation built on a judgment. I have axiological value driven ethics. I no longer follow good or bad handed down by some deity, culture, or family value. I have axiological value driven valuations of good or bad. I do what is healthy and pleasurable. I do not do what is harmful or causes pain. In this endeavor, I do not claim perfection. I am but a traveler and seeker of value, ethics, justice, and pleasure.
Reasons for or Types of Atheism
My college books where:
Understanding The Bible – By Stephen L. Harris – (7th Edition)
Living Religions – by Mary Pat Fisher – (6th Edition)
Promoting Religion as Real is Harmful?
Sometimes, when you look at things, things which seem hidden at first, only come clearer into view later upon reselection or additional information. So, in one’s earnest search for truth one’s support is expressed not as a onetime event and more akin to a life’s journey to know what is true. I am very anti-religious, opposing anything even like religion, including atheist church. but that’s just me. Others have the right to do atheism their way. I am Not just an Atheist, I am a proud antireligionist.
I can sum up what I do not like about religion in one idea; as a group, religions are “Conspiracy Theories of Reality.” These reality conspiracies are usually filled with Pseudo-science and Pseudo-history, often along with Pseudo-morality and other harmful aspects and not just ancient mythology to be marveled or laughed at. I regard all this as ridiculous.
Promoting Religion as Real is Mentally Harmful to a Flourishing Humanity
To me, promoting religion as real is too often promote a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from who they are shaming them for being human. In addition, religion is a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from real history, real science or real morality to pseudohistory, pseudoscience, and pseudo-morality. Moreover, religion is a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from rational thought, critical thinking, or logic.
Likewise, religion is a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from justice, universal ethics, equality, and liberty. Yes, religion is a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from loved ones, and religion is a toxic mental substance that can divide a person from humanity. Therefore, to me, promoting religion as real is too often promote a toxic mental substance that should be rejected as not only false but harmful as well even if you believe it has some redeeming quality.
To me, promoting religion as real is mentally harmful to
The art of know yourself, love yourself, be yourself?
The art of knowing yourself: this involves getting to the place of knowing oneself they, which they must first understand why knowing oneself is important, as well as how to comprehend they don’t already know themself or that most people don’t know themselves even if they think they do.
The art of loving yourself: this involves getting to the place of knowing oneself they, which they must first understand why knowing one’s self is important, as well as how to comprehend they don’t already know them self or that most people don’t know themselves even if they think they do. First one must think about what love looks like wouldn’t it be a growth-producing or would it build self-enlightenment and self-truth? Do you feel I or anyone can define your truth (about who you are)? If someone defined truth for you would you really own it?
Wouldn’t it make more sense instead for me to broaden your ability to see the question? First, would you think a question like this of such a personal relevance has right answers? To start thinking on what love is would we look at are fallible behavior or some philosophical definition? If we look at our relations with others could we be convicted of loving? If we wish for a philosophical definition of love what realities does it hold in our real lives? Is love a feeling or a behavior? If we look at love as feeling what emotional substance does it stem from? If we look at love as behavior is it fixed in the behaviors of others?
The art of being yourself: this involves getting to the place of being oneself, which they must first understand why knowing one’s self is important, as well as how to comprehend they don’t already know them self or that most people don’t know themselves even if they think they do. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. Being yourself is celebrating you, as an individual – learning to express yourself and be happy with who you are. Define yourself by yourself: You can’t be yourself if you don’t know, understand, and accept yourself first. It should be your primary goal to find this out.
Be YOU authentically: don’t put too much care about how other people perceive you including your parents or family. The fact is, it really doesn’t matter in the long run and if love must be bought bartered for or molded to be received, is it a love worth having. It’s impossible to be yourself when you’re caught up in wondering “Do they like or accept me?” To be yourself, you’ve got to let go of these concerns and just let your behavior flow, with only your consideration of others as a lens to reference with not own as your own.
Don’t Hide: everyone is unique has quirks as well as imperfections; we are all at different stages in life. Be honest with yourself, but don’t be too hard on yourself; apply this philosophy to others, as well. There is a difference between being critical and being honest; learn to watch the way you say things to yourself and others. Own who you are: if you’re always working to be someone you’re not, you’ll never be a happy person. Be yourself and show the world you’re proud of the way you are!
Nobody knows you better than you and that’s how it should be. You deserve to be your own best friend, so start trying to figure out how you can do that. If you had to hang out with yourself for a day, what is the most fun type of person you could be, while still being yourself? What is the best version of you? Believe in this idea and use that as your starting point. And how we use this thinking to change how we interact with others is, Knowing society, Loving the Humanity of Society, and Being the Humanity in Society.
A Rational Mind Values Humanity and Rejects Religion and Gods
A truly rational mind sees the need for humanity, as they too live in the world and see themselves as they actually are an alone body in the world seeking comfort and safety. Thus, see the value of everyone around then as they too are the same and therefore rationally as well a humanistically we should work for this humanity we are part of and can either dwell in or help its flourishing as we are all in the hands of each other. You are Free to think as you like but REALITY is unchanged.
While you personally may react, or think differently about our shared reality (the natural world devoid of magic anything), We can play with how we use it but there is still only one communal reality (a natural non-supernatural one), which we all share like it or not and you can’t justifiably claim there is a different reality. This is valid as the only one of
Do beliefs need justification?
Yes, it all requires a justification and if you think otherwise you should explain why but then you are still trying to employ a justification to challenge justification. So, I still say yes it all needs a justification and I know everything is reducible to feeling the substation of existence. I feel my body and thus I can start my justificationism standard right there and then build all logic inferences from that justified point and I don’t know a more core presupposition to start from.
A presupposition is a core thinking stream that, like how a tree of beliefs always has a set of assumed sets of presuppositions or a presupposition is relatively a thing/thinking assumed beforehand at the beginning of a line of thinking point, belief projection, argument or course of action.
And that, as well as everything, needs justification to be concluded as reasonable. Sure, you can believe all kinds of things with no justification at all but we can’t claim them as true, nor wish others to actually agree unless something is somehow and or in some way justified. When is something true that has no justification? If you still think so then offer an example, you know a justification. Sure, there can be many things that may be true but actually receiving rational agreement that they are intact true needs justification.
No god Claims have Justification, Challenge?
“Damien, (responding to me saying no god claims have justification) there are problems thinking everything you believe needs a justification.” – Challenger
My response, so, are you saying something can be claimed as real but have no warrant to justify why one should agree or even entertain it?
“The idea that Induction is reliable can be claimed and seems like an important assumption, but arguments for it are fallacious. There are similar issues with thinking an external world exists.” – Challenger
My response, ok, and how do we discern any of it, if nothing has a need for justification? Because to me, I see you’re saying something is fallacious as asserting a justification stance and thus, is similar to what I think, which is valid, that there is a rationalistic need for justification. You are telling me I am wrong and that needs a justification, just as me showing your thinking wrong took a justification. If not then tell me how I am wrong utilizing no justification at all. So, try to prove me wrong because even if you do you will have provided a justification so then further proving my assertion of the need for justification.
“You are missing part of the conversation. Can you prove every belief needs a justification? Let’s say every belief needs a justification. Then you have to argue for every premise of every argument. That requires infinite arguments. What exactly is your argument that all beliefs require a justification? I am not challenging the importance of justification. I am challenging the idea that every belief has to have a justification. The example above is induction. Hume showed why arguments for induction will be fallacious. I did not just make the claim. Go ahead and prove induction is reliable if you can. It would revolutionize philosophy. In response to >>sure you can believe all kinds of things with no justification at all but we can’t claim them as true not wish others to actually agree unless something is somehow and or in some way justified.
I already said every challenged claim in a debate has to be argued for. Every claim has a burden of proof anyway. Most beliefs that do not require justification are things basically everyone already agrees with. But if you debate someone who rejects the existence of an external world or the reliability of induction, you can’t prove that they have to agree as far as I can tell. In response to >>When is something true that has no justification? Lots of things are true and we don’t know they are true. To claim to know something is true is another issue. But maybe we know induction is reliable. Maybe we know there is an external world. If so, it’s not clear how we know those things. I already mentioned induction above and you never talked about it.” – Challenger
My response, “Sure, there can be many things that may be true but actually receiving rational agreement that they are intact true needs justification.”
“Right, I think we might have talked past one another a bit. I don’t expect agreement without a good argument.” – Challenger
My response, so you, like me want a justification?
Of course, it is a very important thing to me in general.” – Challenger
“Damien, you are evil.” – Attacker
My response, I am only evil in your pseudomorality.
“Good luck bro lol Hell is waiting.” – Attacker
My response, tell me what kind of thinking is it that has such joy, at the thought of others suffering? I will tell you not a humanistic one nor an ethical one, more proof of your pseudomorality is affecting your honest care as a human and still you don’t see it.
Without Nonsense, Religion Dies
I am against ALL Pseudoscience, Pseudohistory, and Pseudomorality. And all of these should openly be debunked, when and where possible. Of course, not forgetting how they are all highly represented in religion. All three are often found in religion to the point that if they were removed, their loss would likely end religion as we know it. I don’t have to respect ideas. People get confused ideas are not alive nor do they have beingness, Ideas don’t have rights nor the right to even exist only people have such a right. Ideas don’t have dignity nor can they feel violation only people if you attack them personally. Ideas don’t deserve any special anything they have no feelings and cannot be shamed they are open to the most brutal merciless attack and challenge without any protection and deserve none nor will I give them any if they are found wanting in evidence or reason. I will never respect Ideas if they are devoid of merit I only respect people.
I Hear Theists?
I hear what theists say and what I hear is that they make assertions with no justification discernable of or in reality just some book and your evidence lacking faith. I wish you were open to see but I know you have a wish to believe. I, however, wish to welcome reality as it is devoid of magic which all religions and gods thinkers believe. I want to be mentally free from misinformed ancient myths and free the minds of those confused in the realm of myths and the antihumanism views that they often attach to. So, I do have an agenda of human liberation from fears of the uninformed conception of reality. Saying that some features of reality are not fully known is not proof of god myth claims. II’s not like every time we lack knowledge, we can just claim magic and if we do we are not being intellectually honest to the appraisal of reality that is devoted of anything magic.
Theists seem to have very odd attempts as logic, as they most often start with some evidence devoid god myth they favor most often the hereditary favorite of the family or culture that they were born into so a continuous blind acceptance generation after generation of force indicated faith in that which on clear instinctually honest appraisal not only should inspire doubt but full disbelief until valid and reliable justification is offered. Why are all gods unjustified? Well, anything you claim needs justification but no one has evidence of god claim attributes they are all unjustified.
All god talk as if it is real acts as if one can claim magic is real by thinking it is so or by accepting someone’s claim of knowing the unjustifiably that they understand an unknowable, such as claims of gods being anything as no one has evidence to start such fact devoid things as all knowing (there is no evidence of an all-knowing anything). Or an all-powerful (there is no evidence of an all-powerful anything). Or the most ridiculous an all-loving (there is no evidence of an all-loving anything). But like all god claims, they are not just evidence lacking, the one claiming them has no justified reason to assume that they can even claim them as proof (it’s all the empty air of faith).
Therefore, as the limit of all people, is to only be able to justify something from and that which corresponds to the real-world to be real and the last time I checked there is no magic of any kind in our real-world experiences. So, beyond the undefendable magical thinking not corresponding to the real-world how much more ridicules are some claimed supreme magical claimed
No God: No evidence, No intelligence, and No goodness = Valid Atheism Conclusion
- No evidence, to move past the Atheistic Null Hypothesis: There is no God/Gods (in inferential statistics, a Null Hypothesis generally assumed to be true until evidence indicates otherwise. Thus, a Null Hypothesis is a statistical hypothesis that there is no significant difference reached between the claim and the non-claim, as it is relatively provable/demonstratable in reality some way. “The god question” Null Hypothesis is set at as always at the negative standard: Thus, holding that there is no God/Gods, and as god faith is an assumption of the non-evidentiary wishful thinking non-reality of “mystery thing” found in all god talk, until it is demonstratable otherwise to change. Alternative hypothesis: There is a God (offered with no proof: what is a god and how can anyone say they know), therefore, results: Insufficient evidence to overturn the null hypothesis of no God/Gods.
- No intelligence, taking into account the reality of the world we do know with 99 Percent Of The Earth’s Species Are Extinct an intelligent design is ridiculous. Five Mass Extinctions Wiped out 99 Percent of Species that have ever existed on earth. Therefore like a child’s report card having an f they need to retake the class thus, profoundly unintelligent design.
- No goodness, assessed through ethically challenging the good god assumptions as seen in the reality of pain and other harm of which there are many to demonstrates either a god is not sufficiently good, not real or as I would assert, god if responsible for this world, would make it a moral monster ripe for the problem of evil and suffering (Argument from Evil). God would be responsible for all pain as life could easily be less painful and yet there is mass suffering. In fact, to me, every child born with diseases from birth scream out against a caring or loving god with the power to do otherwise. It could be different as there is Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain.[1]
Disproof by logical contradiction
‘A Logical Impossibility’
(especially in reductio ad absurdum arguments)
In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical, usually opposite inversions of each other. Contradiction by the creation of a paradox, Plato’s Euthydemus dialogue demonstrates the need for the notion of contradiction. – Wikipedia
In the ensuing dialogue, Dionysodorus denies the existence of “contradiction”, all the while that Socrates is contradicting him: “… I in my astonishment said: What do you mean Dionysodorus? I have often heard, and have been amazed to hear, this thesis of yours, which is maintained and employed by the disciples of Protagoras and others before them, and which to me appears to be quite wonderful, and suicidal as well as destructive, and I think that I am most likely to hear the truth about it from you. – Wikipedia
The dictum is that there is no such thing as a falsehood; a man must either say what is true or say nothing. Is not that your position?” Indeed, Dionysodorus agrees that “there is no such thing as a false opinion … there is no such thing as ignorance” and demands of Socrates to “Refute me.” Socrates responds “But how can I refute you, if, as you say, to tell a falsehood is impossible?”. – Wikipedia
To me, there simply is and rightly must be an intellectual “ethical-belief-responsibility” (burden of proof) to justify the believed truth that is claimed to others is actually demonstrably as being true with valid and reliable reason and/or evidence when it is stated as such.Yes, intellectually one should provide (justificationism) for their assertions that map the sort of governing good habits of belief-formation, belief-maintenance, and belief-relinquishment.
I am an Axiological (Theoretical and Normative VALUE Theorist philosopher) AtheistFormal Axiology: Another Victim in Religion’s War on Science by Dr. KelleherInterview of Formal Axiological Atheist Dr. William Kelleher
Axiology and Value Theory?“Value theory is a range of approaches to understanding how, why, and to what degree persons value things; whether the object or subject of valuing is a person, idea, object, or anything else. This investigation began in ancient philosophy, where it is called axiology or ethics.”– Wikipedia
“The term “Value Theory” is used in at least three different ways in philosophy. In its broadest sense, “value theory” is a catch-all label used to encompass all branches of moral philosophy, social and political philosophy, aesthetics, and sometimes feminist philosophy and the philosophy of religion — whatever areas of philosophy are deemed to encompass some “evaluative” aspect. In its narrowest sense, “value theory” is used for a relatively narrow area of normative ethical theory particularly, but not exclusively, of concern to consequentialists. In this narrow sense, “value theory” is roughly synonymous with “axiology”. Axiology can be thought of as primarily concerned with classifying what things are good, and how good they are. – (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
For instance, a traditional question of axiology concerns whether the objects of value are subjective psychological states or objective states of the world. But in a more useful sense, “value theory” designates the area of moral philosophy that is concerned with theoretical questions about value and goodness of all varieties — the theory of value. The theory of value, so construed, encompasses axiology, but also includes many other questions about the nature of value and its relation to other moral categories. – (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
The division of moral theory into the theory of value, as contrasting with other areas of investigation, cross-cuts the traditional classification of moral theory into normative and metaethical inquiry, but is a worthy distinction in its own right; theoretical questions about value constitute a core domain of interest in moral theory, often cross the boundaries between the normative and the metaethical, and have a distinguished history of investigation.” – (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Axiological “Presumptive-Value”
Your god myth is an Axiological “Presumptive-Value” Failure
I am an Axiological (value theorist) Atheist, and Claims of god are a Presumptive-Value failure. Simply, if you presume a thing is of value that you can’t justify, then you have committed an axiological presumptive value failure.
Axiological “presumptive-value” Success: Sound Thinker: uses disciplined rationality (sound axiological judgment the evaluation of evidence to make a decision) supporting a valid and reliable justification.
Axiological “presumptive-value” Failure: Shallow Thinker: undisciplined, situational, sporadic, or limited thinking (unsound axiological judgment, lacking required evidence to make a “presumptive-value” success decision) lacking the support of a needed valid and reliable justification.
Often I get disheartened to see that so many people can look at the unknown or that which is devoid of any and all understanding and claim to know that this is evidence for some god or another. How can they with all honesty even say that they somehow already know about an established scientific unknown, when all along it is what it ever was, which I will remind you, is currently holding a confirmed status of unknown. Thus, still fully intact as currently unknowable (I.e. you simply cannot justifiability claim that such unknown is god or evidence of god). What really is a god anyway? The term god equals mystery that is used to explain the mysterious leaving us with yet more mystery, thus explains nothing.
Claims of god are a Presumptive-Value failure. Simply, if you presume a thing is of value that you can’t justify, then you have committed an axiological presumptive value failure. Axiological “presumptive-value” Success: Sound Thinker: uses disciplined rationality (sound axiological judgment the evaluation of evidence to make a decision) supporting a valid and reliable justification.
“Ok, So basically, the difference between reasoning with evidence and without?” – Questioner
My response, Well with or without valid justification because of evidence. As in you can’t claim to know the value of something you can’t demonstrate as having good qualities to attach the value claim too so if you lack evidence of the thing in question then you cannot validate its value. So it’s addressing a kind of justificationism (uncountable) Theory of justification, An (philosophy standard) approach that regards the justification of a claim as primary, while the claim itself is secondary; thus, criticism consists of trying to show that a claim cannot be reduced to the authority or criteria that it appeals to.
Think of is as a use-matrix. If I say this is of great use for that, can you validate its use or value, and can I use this as a valid method to state a valid justification for my claims without evidence to value judge from? No, thus an axiological presumptive-value failure as a valid anything.
Theory of justification is a part of epistemology that attempts to understand the justification of propositions and beliefs. Epistemologists are concerned with various epistemic features of belief, which include the ideas of justification, warrant, rationality, and probability. Loosely speaking, justification is the reason that someone (properly) holds a belief. When a claim is in doubt, justification can be used to support the claim and reduce or remove the doubt. Justification can use empiricism (the evidence of the senses), authoritative testimony (the appeal to criteria and authority), or reason. – Wikipedia
“Presumptions are things that are credited as being true until evidence of their falsity is presented. Presumptions have many forms and value (Axiology) is just one. In ethics, value denotes the degree of importance of something or action, with the aim of determining what actions are best to do or what way is best to live (normative ethics), or to describe the significance of different actions. It may be described as treating actions as abstract objects, putting VALUE to them.
It deals with right conduct and living a good life, in the sense that a highly, or at least relatively high valuable action may be regarded as ethically “good” (adjective sense), and that an action of low value, or relatively low in value, may be regarded as “bad”. What makes an action valuable may, in turn, depend on the ethic values of the objects it increases, decreases or alters. An object with “ethic value” may be termed an “ethic or philosophic good” (noun sense). Values can be defined as broad preferences concerning appropriate courses of actions or outcomes. As such, values reflect a person’s sense of right and wrong or what “ought” to be.
“Equal rights for all”, “Excellence deserves admiration”, and “People should be treated with respect and dignity” are representatives of values. Values tend to influence attitudes and behavior and these types include ethical/moral values, doctrinal/ideological(religious, political) values, social values, and aesthetic values. It is debated whether some values that are not clearly physiologically determined, such as altruism, are intrinsic, and whether some, such as acquisitiveness, should be classified as vices or virtues.” ref, ref
The Way of a Sound Thinker?
“Sound thinking to me, in a general way, is thinking, reasoning, or belief that tends to make foresight a desire to be as accurate as one can with valid and reliable reason and evidence.”
Sound axiological judgment, to me, a “presumptive-value” success, is value judged opinions expressed as facts with a valid and reliable justification. In an informal and psychological sense, it is used in reference to the quality of cognitive faculties and adjudicational (relating to adjudication) capabilities of particular individuals, typically called wisdom or discernment. In a legal sense, – used in the context of a legal trial, to refer to a final finding, statement, or ruling, based on a considered weighing of evidence, called, “adjudication“.
A shallow thinker (i.e. not a Deep Thinker, a person whose thoughts are reasoned, methodological, logical, empirical, profound; an intellectual) quickly talks, often with boastful postulations, likely just as often pushed strongly and loudly as if this adds substance, and they do this before fully understanding what’s is really involved. Whereas, a Sound Thinker is reasoned (comparative more reasoned, superlative most reasoned) generally based on reasoning; being the result of logical thought. As a first debate process, a Sound Thinker commonly poses Questions to understand slowing down and assessing all the facts or factors involved and then builds their argument or ideas. In classical logic, the law of non-contradiction (LNC) (also known as the law of contradiction, principle of non-contradiction (PNC), or the principle of contradiction) states that contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e.g. the two propositions “A is B” and “A is not B” are mutually exclusive. It is the second of the three classic laws of thought
Critical Thinking, What Does it Mean to Be Open to Learn?
A General Thinking in all My Epistemology Theorizing is Justificationism
“Damien, I am an atheist but I have faith in gravity tho, but it isn’t exactly “faith.” – Challenger
My response, “No, I don’t agree, you don’t have faith in gravity or gravitation, as it is “a fundamental force” you have proof or if lacking some direct proof would use inference and if even less evidence you use conjecture, not faith. Do you gauntly thinking you need faith in gravity because you wonder or worry that when walking down a set of stairs that you going to fall back up? You don’t need faith (strong belief without evidence) as there is massive proof, almost to the point that it is easily self-evident. You don’t need faith (strong belief without evidence) for anything, as if its warranted it will or should have evidence or it doesn’t deserve not only strong belief but any amount of belief at all as sound beliefs need something to ground their worthiness in relation to reality; the only place evidence comes.
“Gravity, or gravitation, is a natural phenomenon by which all things with mass are brought toward (or gravitate toward) one another, including planets, stars, and galaxies.” Ref
“Gravity is responsible for various phenomena observed on Earth and throughout the Universe; for example, it causes the Earth and the other planets to orbit the Sun, the Moon to orbit the Earth, the formation of tides, the formation and evolution of the Solar System, stars and galaxies. Since energy and mass are equivalent, all forms of energy, including light, also cause gravitation and are under the influence of it. On Earth, gravity gives weight to physical objects and causes the ocean tides. The gravitational attraction of the original gaseous matter present in the Universe caused it to begin coalescing, forming stars – and the stars to group together into galaxies – so gravity is responsible for many of the large-scale structures in the Universe.” Ref
Understanding how children use magical thinking
Sound thinking to me, in a general way, is thinking, reasoning, or belief
that tends to make foresight a desire to be as accurate as one can
with valid and reliable reason and evidence.
Dogmatic–Propaganda vs. Disciplined-Rationality
Religionists and fideists, promote Dogmatic-Propaganda whereas atheists and antireligionists mostly promote Disciplined-Rationality. Dogmatic–Propaganda commonly is a common motivator of flawed or irrational thinking but with over seventy belief biases identified in people, this is hardly limited to just the religious or faith inclined. Let me illustrate what I am saying, to me all theists are believing lies or irrationally in that aspect of their lives relating to god belief. So the fact of any other common intellectual indexers where there may be “right” reason in beliefs cannot remove the flawed god belief corruption being committed.
What I am saying is like this if you kill one person you are a killer. If you believe in one “god” I know you are a follower of Dogmatic-Propaganda and can not completely be a follower of Disciplined-Rationality. However, I am not proclaiming all atheists are always rational as irrationally is revolving door many people believe or otherwise seem to stumble through. It’s just that god belief does this with intentionally.
Disciplined-Rationality is motivated by principles of correct reasoning with emphasis on valid and reliable methods or theories leading to a range of rational standpoints or conclusions understanding that concepts and beliefs often have consequences thus hold an imperative for truth or at least as close to truth as can be acquired rejecting untruth.
Disciplined-Rationality can be seen as an aid in understanding the fundamentals for knowledge, sound evidence, justified true belief and involves things like decision theory and the concern with identifying the value(s), reasonableness, verification, certainties, uncertainties and other relevant issues resulting in the most clear optimal decision/conclusion and/or belief/disbelief.
Disciplined-Rationality attempts to understand the justification or lack thereof in propositions and beliefs concerning its self with various epistemic features of belief, truth, and/or knowledge, which include the ideas of justification, warrant, rationality, reliability, validity, and probability.
ps. “Sound Thinker”, “Shallow Thinker”, “Dogmatic–Propaganda” & “Disciplined-Rationality” are concepts/terms I created*
I am a “Scientific Axiology” minded “Philosophic Axiologist.”*Philosophic Axiology (Value Theory)“Scientific Axiology (Formal Axiology).
Axiological atheism can be thought to involve ethical/value theory reasoned and moral argument driven apatheism, ignosticism, atheism, anti-theism, anti-religionism, secularism, and humanism. The valuations move up the latter as the levels of evaluation is made to value judge all the elements to better understand the value or disvalue available to reach the most accurate valuation reasonable with a sound aware value conciseness. Axiological atheism can be thought to involve Ethical Atheism.
Below shows the 7 axiological atheism argument flow to show the value layers and my thoughts on it:
1. Apatheism: we are born and by the fact reality is devoid of magic removes theological desires to understand the obvious naturalistic world, until we learn otherwise. (a “presumptive-value” failure, thus no motivation to adequately start the evaluation needed to understand if there is real value for an Axiology assessment to accurately place it in the value hierarchy). = no value
2. Ignosticism: Sees theological arguments and language as equivocation, contradictory, and/or un-cognitively relatable other than emotionalism or the like. I see Ignosticism as using the Theological non-cognitivism arguments of “mind understanding issues” (rationalism challenging) and an evidentialist/verificationist arguments of “lacking evidence issues” (empiricism challenging). As an atheist, I am a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of god or gods. In my non-belief, I am also ignostic feeling that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of god(s).
As an ignostic, I am a person who rational no idea of anything from reality whatever to label as “a concept of god” thus I can say I have no idea of anything that can connect to the term god and no reason to think anyone else can either. (again a “presumptive-value” failure, no good Ontology of the thing for Identifying values that could influence belief but without what is needed to understand if there is real value for an axiology assessment to accurately place it in the value hierarchy). = no value
3. Atheism: How can we not reject the concept of gods, aka: supposed supreme magical beings, when not even some simple magic is supported in reality. So how then is it not even more ridiculous to claim some supreme magic aka: gods which are even further from reality. May I remind you that faith in the acquisition of knowledge is not a valid method worth believing in. Because, what proof is “faith”, of anything religion claims by faith, as many people have different faith even in the same religion?
As an atheist, I am a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of god or gods. In my non-belief, I am also ignostic feeling that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of god(s). As an ignostic, I am a person who rational no idea of anything from reality whatever to label as “a concept of god” thus I can say I have no idea of anything that can connect to the term god and no reason to think anyone else can either. Atheists talk about gods and religions for the same reason doctors talk about cancer, they are looking for a cure or a firefighter talking about fires because they burn people and they care to stop them.
We atheists too often feel a need to help the victim’s of mental slavery, held in the bondage that is the false beliefs of gods and the conspiracy theories of reality found in religions. If you think you believe in a god, “what do you mean by god,” saying a name tells me not one thing about the thing I am asking to know “its” beingness / thingness / attributes / qualities. Thus, what is the thing “god” to which you are talking about and I want you to explain its beingness /thingness / attributes/ qualities? Religious/theistic people with supernatural beliefs often seem as though they haven’t thought much about and that is something we can help using ontology questions about the beingness / thingness / attributes/ qualities they are trying to refer too. What do you mean by god, when you use the term god? And, I am not asking you for the name you attach to the thing you label as a god. I don’t need to know what the god you believe is known “by.” I am asking, what is the thing you are naming as a god and what that thing is, its qualities in every detail like all things have if they are real.
Are you just making stuff up or guessing/hoping or just promoting unjustified ideas you want to believe, what is a god? As an atheist, I feel more wonder than I did as a theist because I thought, “big deal” to any wonder I experienced, thinking god could do anything. So with such an unrealistic mindset, everything lost its wonder but it’s the opposite as an atheist. As a theist, the world was full of superstitions and supernatural magic possibilities and thus utilized thinking that was not in the real world. As an atheist all I have now is the real world, not that all atheists seem to get this, we all are in a real world devoid of magic anything, therefore, everything adds to my feeling of awe. There should be little debate with atheist acknowledging discernable reality compared to theists with non-reality claims. Yes, I have way more awe and wonder as an atheist than I ever had as a theist because as a theist anything was possible with god. Therefore, as a theist things where not that amazing.
However, as an atheist grasping what an absolute accidental or how random things are, with a 95 to 99 % of all life ever existing on this planet went extinct. I am thoroughly amazed we are even here the evolved children of ancient exploded stars, likely born in galaxies born in super-massive black holes, it’s all amazing. There is no evidence for Gods. But is their proposition outside of reason? As always start in reality from the evidence we do know, such as never in the history of scientific research or investigation has any supernatural claims shown to be true. So it is completely outside of possibility and is utterly ridiculous.
Therefore, belief should be rejected as there are no warrants at all and it is axiologically unworthy to such a preponderance to demand disbelief. (yet again a “presumptive value” failure, no good Ontology of the thing not the cognitively meaningful claims relatable to reality that must be attached to all magic and gods claims for Identifying values that could influence belief but without what is needed to understand if there is real value for an axiology assessment to accurately place it in the value hierarchy).
4. Antitheism: Anti-theism requires more than either merely disbelieving in gods or even denying the existence of gods. Anti-theism requires a couple of specific and additional beliefs: first, that theism is harmful to the believer, harmful to society, harmful to politics, harmful, to culture, etc.; second, that theism can and should be countered in order to reduce the harm it causes. If a person believes these things, then they will likely be an anti-theist who works against theism by arguing that it be abandoned, promoting alternatives, or perhaps even supporting measures to suppress it. It’s worth noting here that, however, unlikely it may be in practice, it’s possible in theory for a theist to be an anti-theist.
This may sound bizarre at first, but remember that some people have argued in favor of promoting false beliefs if they are socially useful. To me, I think many may have a misconception of the term. Atheism and anti-theism so often occur together at the same time and in the same person that it’s understandable if many individuals fail to realize that they aren’t the same. Making a note of the difference is important, however, because not every atheist is anti-theistic and even those who are, aren’t anti-theistic all the time. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods; anti-theism is a conscious and deliberate opposition to theism.
Many atheists are also anti-theists, but not all and not always. To me as an antitheist, I see the concept of gods antihumanistic and wholly harmful to a free humanity and if the so-called gods somehow do end up being real that I will switch to direct opposition as I would any tyrant oppressing humanity. Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is a term used to describe an opposition to theism. The term has had a range of applications and definitions. In secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to the validity of theism, but not necessarily to the existence of a deity. As an anti-theist, I am a person who is active in opposition to theism: both the concepts of god(s) as well as the religions that support them.
This is because theistic concepts and theistic religions are harmful and that even if theistic beliefs were true, they would be undesirable. (And, again a “presumptive value” failure, of the other value challenges of the lesser evaluations and value judgments addressed in theapatheism, ignosticism, atheism value judgment conclusion and an Axiological Atheism assessment of the god concept that must be attached to all magic and gods claims Identifying a lack of value and/or disvalue that influence harm to real value in an axiology assessment to accurately place its value violations in the value hierarchy).
5. Antireligionism: Not just Atheist, axiological atheists should be antitheists but this generally will involve anti-religionism. it would generally thus hold anti-religionist thinking. Especially, I am an anti-religionist, not just an atheist, and here is why summed up in three ideas I am against. And, in which these three things are common in all religions: “pseudo-science”, “pseudo-history”, and “pseudo-morality”. And my biggest thing of all is the widespread forced indoctrination of children, violating their free choice of what to not believe or believe, I hate forced hereditary religion. And my biggest thing of all is the widespread forced indoctrination of children, violating their free choice of what to not believe or believe, I hate forced hereditary religion. As well as wish to offer strong critiques regarding the pseudo-meaning of the “three letter noise” people call “G.o.d” (group originated delusion)!
As an anti-religionist, I am a person who can look at religion on the whole and see it is detrimental to the progress of humanity thus am in opposition to all and every religion, not even just opposition to organized religion. In case you were wondering, I am anti-pseudoscience, anti-supernatural, and anti-superstition as well. May I not be a silent watcher as millions of children are subjugated almost before their birth let alone when they can understand thought and are forcibly coerced, compelled, constrained, and indoctrinated in the mental pollution that religion can be. My main goal against religion is to fully stop as much as possible forced indoctrination, one could ask but then why do I challenge all adults faith?
Well, who do you think is doing the lying to children in the first place. End Hereditary religion, if its a belief let them the equal right to choose to believe. “Religion is an Evolved Product” and Yes, Religion is Like Fear Given Wings… (And, one last time a “presumptive value” failure, of the other value challenges of the lesser evaluations and value judgments addressed in the apatheism, ignosticism, atheism value judgment conclusion and an Axiological Atheism assessment of the god concept and anti-theism assessment of the god show not just a lack of value but a possibly or likely harm demonstrating bot just a lack of value but a real disvalue and that includes the religions potentially removing value in an axiology assessment to accurately place it in the value hierarchy).
6. Secularism: is the only honorable way to value the dignity of others. If it was not true that there is a large unequal distribution of religion contributing to violence then there would be equal religion and atheist secularism violence. You do not see atheists bombing agnostics the very idea is laughable however even different branches of the same religion do will and have killed one another. So, violence not who we are it’s something we need to be compelled to do. Therefore, please support secularism.
We are all one connected human family, proven by DNA showing we should treat each other as fellow dignity beings, supported equally (no gods and no masters). States may often have powers, but only citizens have the glue of morality we call rights. And, as they say, in my “dream society”, lots of things are free (aka. planting free food everywhere, free to everyone); but I wonder what you mean when people say you can’t just let things be free, I think, yeah, how can I take free stuff from a free earth.
If one observes the virtues of (T. R. U. E. “The Rational Universal Ethics” or “The Responsible Universal Ethics”) that connect to all things as that of the connectedness equality like those which mirror the rays of the sun, fall down equally with a blind but fair indifference. (what is being expressed is that this sun shining will not favor one over another, no, the same upon everyone offering its light to all plant, animal, human, women, men, single or married, homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, nonreligious, religious, people of means and those without, able-bodied and those which special needs, people of color, and those who are not, those with access to resources and those which out, young and elderly, etc.) All who wish to follow T. R. U. E. thus embodying a universalize equalitarian standard of ethics should strive to be like a ray of connected light to the world, shining equally and freedom to all of the world.
By such efforts a nonbiased unitive ethical approach is possible, one would have an increase in positive feelings to help others understanding equalitarian connectedness. If you don’t think different you will not behave differently, if you have never lived differently it is hard to see things differently and if you do not strive to understand difference one is thus unknowingly or not bound by limited encapsulation.
I am for a Free Secular Society. I am not for oppression or abuse of religious believer and want a free secular society with both freedoms of religion and freedom from religion. Even though I wish the end of faith and believing in myths and superstition, I wish this by means of informing the willing and not force of the unwilling. I will openly challenge and rebuff religious falsehoods and misunderstanding as well as rebuke and ridicule harmful or unethical religious ideology or behavior.
7. Humanism: is the philosophic thinking that humans can solve human problems by human means, without feeling a need to appeal to the likes of holy books, mystical anything, nor the belief in gods or religions. But, instead, aspires to a true belief in humanity, viewing it with a persuasion of equality. This caring realist thinking found in humanism utilizes an unstated assumption or aspiration, to do no harm as much as possible and to do good whenever one can.
Moreover, we are all one connected human family, proven by DNA showing we should treat each other as fellow dignity beings, supported equally. And, no one really owns the earth, we may make claims to it even draw lines on maps thinking this makes the fantasy borders, illusion supported by force and the potential for threat. Thus the ethical truth is we need to share the earth as communally as possible. And use the resources as safe and ethically as possible striving towards sharing and caring. (do no Harm and do good = Humanism). My core definition of humanism is that humans can solve human problems by human means.
I am not saying other things can’t or shouldn’t be added to it but to me, a definition of humanism must always contain something coherent to such a thinking or not contradict such as I have offered. Thus, why it is appropriate to say “good without god” when one is a humanist.
I argue for Atheism on scientific, archaeologically/anthropologically, philosophical, social/humanitarianism and prehistorical/historical grounds.
Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic grounds: Link
Prehistorical/historical grounds: Link
Social/humanitarianism grounds: Link
God: “antihumanism thinking”
God thinking is a superstitiously transmitted disease, that usually is accompanied with some kind of antihumanism thinking. Relatively all gods, in general, are said to have the will and power over humans. Likewise, such god claims often are attributed to be the ones who decide morality thus remove the true morality nature in humans that actually assist us in morality. So, adding a god is to welcome antihumanism burdens, because god concepts are often an expression. This is especially so when any so-called god somethingism are said to make things like hells is an antihumanism thinking.
A general humanism thinking to me is that everyone owns themselves, not some god and everyone is equal. Such humanism thinking to me, requires a shunning of coercion force that removes a human’s rights or the subjugation of oppression and threats for things like requiring belief or demanding faith in some other unjustified abstraction from others. Therefore, humanism thinking is not open to being in such beliefs, position or situations that violate free expression of one’s human rights which are not just relinquished because some people believed right or their removal is at the whims of some claimed god (human rights removing/limiting/controlling = ANTIHUMANISM). Humanism to me, summed up as, humans solving human problems through human means. Thus, humanism thinking involves striving to do good without gods, and not welcoming the human rights removing/limiting/controlling, even if the myths could somehow come to be true.
Do you support Human Rights, Are you a Humanist?
How can one claim to be a humanist and somehow not feel compelled to question all beliefs that oppose human values? Simply the world we live in requires that we care, for if we don’t we still live there but can hardly be thought of as a humanistic supporter. Sometimes the greatest fight, in an unfair uncaring world, is not to let it change you for the worst. We should be our best and change the world instead. And not to let it stop us from wishing to be as fair and kind as we can. For the world is not only one we live in but one we help create. Let’s create a better world we can all be proud of together, one of freedom, equality, love, and care.
- My life; the good, the bad, and the ugly on the road to the Mental Freedom of Atheism
- I Believe Archaeology, not Myths & Why Not, as the Religious Myths Already Violate Reason!
- Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense.
- Truth is a Value (axiological) Judgment.
- Axiological Atheism not Nihilist Atheism
- Interview of Formal Axiological Atheist Dr. William Kelleher
- I am an Axiological Atheist, with a Rationalist Persuasion, who Supports Anarcho-Humanism
- Axiological Atheism is Intellectualism
- “Value Theory/Value Science” atheism: AXIOLOGICAL ATHEISM
- Explaining Axiological theism, Axiological agnosticism, and Axiological atheism
- Axiological Atheism Supports Humanism & Secularism
- Axiological Atheism Morality Critique: of the bible god
- As an Axiological Atheist, I wish for Human Flourishing
- Psychological certainty and Epistemic certainty?
- Losing My Religion and MY Faith Addiction
- Ignostic Atheist: Do you Have a Coherent Definition of god?
- god Claims are a Non-Reality Commodity
- My Blogs on the Evolution of RELIGION
- Explaining My thoughts on the Evolution of Religion
- My Blogs Somewhat Relating to Science
- I am against Hereditary religion?
- Blogs on Gender/Sexism and Religion
- Lovestyle or Lifestyle Options
- My blog on The Way of a Sound Axiological Thinker
- Main Deity or Religious Belief Systems
I Don’t Have to Respect Ideas
People get confused ideas are not alive nor do they have beingness, Ideas don’t have rights nor the right to even exist only people have such a right. Ideas don’t have dignity nor can they feel violation only people if you attack them personally. Ideas don’t deserve any special anything they have no feelings and cannot be shamed they are open to the most brutal merciless attack and challenge without any protection and deserve none nor will I give them any if they are found wanting in evidence or reason.
I will never respect Ideas if they are devoid of merit I only respect people. When I was young it was all about me, I wanted to be liked. Then I got older and it was even more about me, I wanted power. Now I am beyond a toxic ego and it is not just about me, I want to make a difference. Sexism is that evil weed that can sadly grow even in the well-tended garden of the individual with an otherwise developed mind. Which is why it particularly needs to be attacked and exposed; and is why I support feminism. Here are four blogs on that: Activism Labels Matter, thus Feminism is Needed, Feminist atheists as far back as the 1800s?, Sexism in the Major World Religions and Rape, Sexism and Religion?
Having privilege in race, gender, sexuality, ability, class, nationality, etc. does not mean one did not have it hard in life, it just was not hard due to race, gender, sexuality, ability, class, nationality, etc. if one has privilege in that area.
Empathy: think in another’s thinking, try to feel their feeling, and care about their experience.
Theism is presented as adding love to your life…
But to me, more often it peddles in ignorance (pseudo-science, pseudo-history, and pseudo-morality), tribalism (strong in-group loyalty if you believe like them and aversion to difference; like shunning: social rejection, emotional distance, or ostracism), and psychological terrorism; primarily targeting well being both safety and comfort (you are born a sinner, you are evil by nature, you are guilty of thought crimes, threats of misfortune, suffering, and torture “hell”).
Hell yes, I am against the fraud that is the world religions.
Why not be against the promotion of woo-woo pseudo-truth, when I am very against all pseudo-science, pseudo-history, and pseudo-morality and the harm they can produce. Along with the hate, such as sexism and homophobia are too often seen or the forced indoctrination of children. And this coercive indoctrination of the world religions, with their pseudo-science, pseudo-history, and pseudo-morality mainly furthered by forced Hereditary Religion (family or cultural, religious beliefs forced on children because the parent or caregiver believes that way). This is sadly done, even before a child can be expected to successfully navigate reason; it’s almost as if religious parents believe their “woo-woo pseudo-truth” lies will not be so easily accepted if they wait on a mind that can make its own choice.
Because we do see how hard it is for the ones forced into Hereditary Religion. It seems difficult for them to successfully navigate reason in relation to their woo-woo pseudo-truth, found in a religion they were indoctrinationally taught to prefer, because after being instructed on how to discern pseudo-truth as truth than just wishing that their blind servitude belief in a brand of religious pseudo-truth devoid of justified, valid or reliable reason and evidence. I care because I am a rationalist, as well as an atheist.
Thus, this religious set of “woo-woo pseudo-truth” pushed on the simple-minded as truth bothers me greatly. So, here it is as simple as I can make it you first need a good thinking standard to address beliefs one may approach as a possible belief warranted to be believed. I wish to smash that lying pig of religion with the Hammer of Truth: Ontology, Epistemology, and Axiology Questions (a methodological use of philosophy). Overall, I wish to promote in my self and for others; to value a worthy belief etiquette, one that desires a sound accuracy and correspondence to the truth: Reasoned belief acquisitions, good belief maintenance, and honest belief relinquishment. May we all be authenticly truthful rationalists that put facts over faith.
I have made many mistakes in my life but the most common one of all is my being resistant to change. However, now I wish to be more, to be better, as I desire my openness to change if needed, not letting uncomfortable change hold me back. May I be a rationalist, holding fast to a valued belief etiquette: demanding reasoned belief acquisitions, good belief maintenance, and honest belief relinquishment.
Truth Navigation: Techniques for Discussions or Debates
I do truth navigation, both inquiry questions as well as
strategic facts in a tag team of debate and motivational teaching.
Truth Navigation and the fallacy of Fideism “faith-ism”
Compare ideas not people, attack thinking and not people. In this way, we have a higher chance to promote change because it’s the thinking we can help change if we address the thinking and don’t attack them.
My eclectic set of tools for my style I call “Truth Navigation” (Techniques for Discussions or Debates) which involves:
- *REMS: reason (rationalism), evidence (empiricism), and methodological “truth-seeking” skepticism (Methodic doubt) (the basic or general approach)
- *The Hammer of Truth: ontology, epistemology, and axiology (methodological use of philosophy)
- *Dialectical Rhetoric = truth persuasion: use of facts and reasoning (motivational teaching)
- *Utilizing Dignity: strategic dignity attacks or dignity enrichments (only used if confusion happens or resistance is present)
Asking the right questions at the right time with the right info can also change minds, you can’t just use facts all on their own. Denial likes consistency, the pattern of thinking cannot vary from a fixed standard of thinking, or the risk of truth could slip in. Helping people alter skewed thinking is indeed a large task but most definitely a worthy endeavor. Some of my ideas are because I am educated both some in college (BA in Psychology with addiction treatment, sociology, and a little teaching and criminology) and also as an autodidact I have become somewhat educated in philosophy, science, archeology, anthropology, and history but this is not the only reason for all my ideas. It is also because I am a deep thinker, just striving for truth. Moreover, I am a seeker of truth and a lover of that which is true.
Ok, I am a kind of “Militant” Atheist
I want a war of ideas where the loser is ignorance or hate and the victor is kindness and a rational mind. Not another religious war with people where the loser is always humanity no matter the victor. What I hope for with my discussions or expressed ideas is not so much to strive to change people’s mind. But instead, I wish to inspire your mind to reason and to thrive on the search for valid and reliable evidence as well as a high standard n your ethics of belief. This ethics of belief I hope everyone adopts is something like this: reasoned belief acquisitions, good belief maintenance, and honest belief relinquishment. Sadly the professed thing of hope, “Religion” can be an and too often is an easy excuse to do horrible things, which is clear throughout history.
I am a BIG fan of the truth.
“Where did you find it?! Mankind has been diligently seeking truth since time memorial!” –
I have been asked before, how can I stand to deal with illogical, ones lacking critical thinking, the unreasonable, misinformed but fully believe, deliberately uninformed or deluded people, often so kindly
Well, I believe in others, or at least their ability to reason even if you don’t know how or are not paying attention currently. I can do deal with most people as I am often fighting for them even if they only feel I am against them and it usually is not that hard to do with a heart of compassion, as I care for the future of humanity and people have value. And, if people don’t listen or grasp logic, I try something else like reasoning. If they will not listen or grasp reasoning, I will try just getting them to think, maybe on something they can agree or they do understand trying to work them back to the rationalism they are not getting or are avoiding
“Damien, what I find interesting is how an atheist like you spends so much time and energy on God and religion.” – Challenger
My response, Well, let’s see, maybe because we atheists and anti-religionists care to inform our fellow humans who have been lied to and are lying to others and often forcing religion on children indoctrinating them with lies over truth and it’s harming us all. You know, all the religious hate groups and religious violence stuff and the like. What I find interesting is how could a responsible caring ethical person stay silent against religions, that my friend is a much better question.
What is it to be Rational? I am a Rationalist.
As an atheist rationalist, I tend to filter everything through reason, empirical facts, and ethics before they can be accepted as justified, true or good.
A Rational Mind Values Humanity
A truly rational mind sees the need for humanity, as they too live in the world and see themselves as they actually are an alone body in the world seeking comfort and safety. Thus, see the value of everyone around them, as they too are the same and therefore, rationally as well a humanistically, we should work for this humanity we are part of. Moreover, we simply can either dwell in or help its flourishing (the humanity we are part of), as we are all in a metaphoric way, are in the hands of each other and communally need each other.
We rise by helping each other and we may fail if we keep going as hurtful as humans too often are to each other. May we be good humans. We can be builders of life or its destruction. The person is political so the actions of my life are the expression of my political values even before I tell you what brand I may claim. We are not our past, though we are bound to it. We are also not our future self yet.
So, just be the best you in the here and now. May the actions of my life be written deep with the poetry of my humanity. What do your actions say?
I am a high thinking primate, just trying to live an honorable life, being of service to others, and I wish as a life’s mission to be a kindness aficionado. And, I like to contemplate humans, humanity, and human flourishing
My core definition of
I am a freelance writer-activist, blogger, video creator, artist, poet, and event producer/speaker/coordinator for damienmarieathope.com
We as humanity must work together as one people and one human race. We can no longer sit back and watch the world burn. We are accountable for the world staying the same thus leading to extended suffering, or change the world to start alleviating suffering. For too long we have gotten comfortable with eyes of hate, which only seem to find victims, instead of eyes of love, helping us find friends.
I am not calling for fighting for a political party; I am trying to inspire humanitarian flourishing not limited to even a country. As I wish to look to the big picture, that we are all global citizens, and I say it’s time we start acting like it. I, as others, promise to strive to help be the change so needed in this world. Will you join us?
The Personal Bio of Damien Marie AtHope
The Professional Bio of Damien Marie AtHope
I can say I know that no gods exist because a god is a non-reality commodity (unjustified claim referring to a proposed thing not evident in reality). Thus, by definition is not a thing that exists in reality, therefore such a claimed thing is not real to reality, and this means in reality gods don’t exist. Unless you have some reality provable facts to support claims of these non-reality gods to which are unjustifiably claimed?
Facts are labels, just like truth, that we put on claims we think are proven somehow, in that assertions are believed to match the state of affairs (if you are making realistic assumptions from science then likely supported by the beliefs in science realism), that generally promote the Correspondence theory of truth “similar to both Rationalism and Empiricism” or coherence theory of truth “similar to just Rationalism” its all still epistemic property of beliefs, whether one’s claim is of knowledge or certainty.
Be thoughtful in what you say, because, words once released have power, due them being a method of transferring feelings not just ideas. Words are world builders and dramatic destructors. They can build mental castles to protect or dungeons to torment. May I strive to be kind to others with my words. And, I think back on my life, it’s not the times I was the most selfish but the times I was kind, that brighten my life. May I now make an even stronger effort to do so in all I do, as it’s so valuable to an enriched wellbeing in life.
Damien’s Patreon if you want to support what he do.
Here
May the actions of my life be written deep with the poetry of my humanity.
Some people fight for people and some seem to just like to fight with people. We are our best when we are showing thoughtful regard, not thoughtless indifference
True Morality Not the Golden Rule…
Axiology, Morality and the Dignity Being: “Human Entity”
Axiological Ethics not Pseudo Morality
To me, true morality is not starting with an “us” or “me” focused morality, as morality is a social interaction exchange, thus it must be other focused. Some would say what about, “treating others as they should be treated?” To me, I see everyone as owning themselves all equal, in this right as humans. Moreover, to me morality is behavioral and a social property, there is no immoral thing one can do to themselves as one cannot violate themselves or their own consent as they choose their own actions.
Thus, to me, all morality is about others and our interactions with them and them with us. So, morality arises in a social context with all things not that all things have the same moral weight. Therefore, moral relationships with life outside humans have a different moral weight or value.
I am not worried that you will be offended by the truth, as I am at how your beliefs offend the truth. Facts are facts, so if you have nonfact beliefs fine but don’t feel bad when I question them.
Reason, Morality, and Emotions?
It saddens me when proponents of atheism also seem to be proponents of anti-intellectualism either in rejecting philosophy or science. I am against all pseudoscience, pseudohistory, and pseudo-morality and the harm they can produce.
I am a rationalist
Therefore, I am happy to correct the errors in thinking many atheists, agnostics, and skeptics may have, mainly because of the overconfidence in skepticism and the lack of a respect for the supremacy reason needed for logic which is needed to standardize validity. Religion should be seen as ancient mythology to be marveled and laughed at, rather than promoted as truth when it is only feeble pseudo-truth.
And why do we so often error it thinking to wish on myths and not believe in scientific proven “godless-reality”, is because We are emotional beings who have a thinking strategy called reason we only sometimes use. Simply, We are not rational beings who have a bonding strategy called emotions we sometimes use.
Atheists talk about gods and religions for the same reason doctors talk about cancer, they are looking for a cure or a firefighter talking about fires because they burn people and they care to stop them. We atheists too often feel a need to help the victim’s of mental slavery, held in the bondage that is the false beliefs of gods and the conspiracy theories of reality found in religions.
I am all for free thinking, if the evidence is there. Great, go down the rabbit hole but do not eat the rabbit shit offered as real; when its proof disappears like a mental mirage, gone in a poof magic as simple as the magical thinking that inspires all manner of flawed beliefs.
If the only rights you fight for are your own, then you have a lot to learn about the value of rights.
Religion has been a reason for violence and harm and at times a promoter of peace. Science does not need to fill the gap of religion. We need to remove it as it was always an abstraction not a realistic thing to being with. Not one thing religion offers that is thought of as good that cannot be done by persons not following any religion. Atheist generally is simply life with religion removed, all its pseudo meaning as well as pseudoscience, pseudohistory, and pseudo-morality. We have real science, realistic history and can access real morality with a blend of philosophy, anthropology, psychology, sociology and cognitive science.
World, do you hear me now, because you were nothing but silent as I suffered extreme religious oppression and to this news, you simply spit in my face telling my religious freedom and all I can think is, no, you mean my parent’s religious freedom, which may I remind you is a violation of my religious freedom and was instead my religious oppression. Where are you now, while millions await this same fate if you keep doing nothing?
If the only rights you fight for are your own, then you have a lot to learn about the value of rights.
Childhood Indoctrination is often the gateway drug, to a life of irrational magical thinking superstitions, like ghosts, gods, or guardian spirits.
The Mental Parasite Called God?
God is not simply a myth, it a mental parasite feeding off your life, is like a mental prison concept, disemboweling you, and any religion that supports the concept of god(s), becomes like a controlling jailer to the mind of the god believer. What is love, if it is so cheap, that it is for wholesale to myths? To me, it is truly a sad thing, when you have people offer more love to an unknown and at best unproven thing they call god; not even evident in this world, over real people, even loved ones, which are known in this world. Sadly, all too often a mind full of god(s) myths have no appetite for
I am an anti-religionist, not just an atheist, and here is why summed up in three ideas I am against. And, in which these three things are common in all religions: “pseudo-science”, “pseudo-history”, and “pseudo-morality”. And my biggest thing of all is the widespread forced indoctrination of children, violating their free choice of what to not believe or believe, I hate forced hereditary religion. And my biggest thing of all is the widespread forced indoctrination of children, violating their free choice of what to not believe or believe, I hate forced hereditary religion. As well as wish to offer strong critiques regarding the pseudo-meaning of the “three
It seems, in general, the less education and higher poverty have a higher correlation to being religious.
I am an Axiological Atheist, with a Rationalist Persuasion, who Supports Anarcho-Humanism
“I often find that the quality of a person is written in their thinking and behavior.”
Am I a survivor?
I fell as you tripped me again and from your hate, I remove myself from such mind and being corruption freely walking into the gates of love so longed for. You have not beaten me, you cannot stop me, you don’t want me to live, to thrive, to be all the best I can be but you hate and yet I am still here, a survivor, a full life liver, a thriver, as well as a warrior for kindness and compassion, reaching the care I was rarely offered, as a gift to the ones so desperately oppressed under your harsh gaze. May we all be free and the positive best we can be, I know I am as best I can.
I am here growing stronger every day. Who am I, you ask, I respond loud and proud, I am a survivor and even in these chains from my past, you will not stop me. Sometimes, we need to see the truth, that many people are liars and deniers while claiming they are believers. Once we stop seeing the dignity of others we feel free to violate them with impunity. But when dignity is
“Child’s Eyes”
I find a sanctuary of hope, in the Armageddon of my life.I see a sweet young child and I think if we are all born with love.Where do we learn to hate?And why?I look into the eyes of the young child Only finding a gentle love with an uncorrupted honesty.I think,how I wish not to know,hate!I wish only for the innocence of love.I wish the dark postcards of my heart were blankbut how can a piece of wood turn back into a tree?How can I forget the pain inside of me?I wish to forget.I wish to unlearn.To be cleansed by love and set free.I look down into the child’s eyes wishing for what I can never have again,My own innocence, religion you robbed me of that!
May I not be a silent watcher as millions of children are subjugated almost before their birth let alone when they can understand thought and are forcibly coerced, compelled, constrained, and indoctrinated in the mental pollution that religion can be.
My main goal against religion is to fully stop as much as possible forced indoctrination, one could ask but then why do I challenge all adults faith? well, who do you think is doing the lying to children in the first place. End Hereditary religion, if its a belief let them the equal right to choose to believe.
Don’t give up, think of all the people who you get to prove wrong with your success.
My thinking is strong like a bomb, deep like the ocean,and creatively imaginative as if a star shining brightly.
“Religion is an Evolved Product” and Yes, Religion is Like Fear Given Wings…
It seems ancient peoples had to survived amazing threats in a “dangerous universe (by superstition perceived as good and evil),” and human “immorality or imperfection of the soul” which was thought to affect the still living, leading to ancestor worship. This ancestor worship presumably led to the belief in supernatural beings, and then some of these were turned into the belief in gods. This feeble myth called gods were just a human conceived “made from nothing into something over and over, changing, again and again, taking on more as they evolve, all the while they are thought to be special,” but it is just supernatural animistic spirit-belief perceived as sacred.
Quick Evolution of Religion?
So, it all starts in a general way with Animism (theoretical belief in supernatural powers/spirits), then this is physically expressed in or with Totemism (theoretical belief in mythical relationship with powers/spirits through a totem item), which then enlists a full-time specific person to do this worship and believed interacting Shamanism (theoretical belief in access and influence with spirits through ritual), and then there is the further employment of myths and gods added to all the above giving you Paganism (often a lot more nature-based than most current top world religions, thus hinting to their close link to more ancient religious thinking it stems from). My hypothesis is expressed with an explanation of the building of a theatrical house (modern religions development).
Historically, in large city-state societies (such as Egypt or Iraq) starting around 5,000 years ago culminated to make religion something kind of new, a sociocultural-governmental-religious monarchy, where all or at least many of the people of such large city-state societies seem familiar with and committed to the existence of “religion” as the integrated life identity package of control dynamics with a fixed closed magical doctrine, but this juggernaut integrated religion identity package of Dogmatic-Propaganda certainly did not exist or if developed to an extent it was highly limited in most smaller prehistoric societies as they seem to lack most of the strong control dynamics with a fixed closed magical doctrine (magical beliefs could be at times be added or removed).
Many people just want to see developed religious dynamics everywhere even if it is not. Instead, all that is found is largely fragments until the domestication of religion. Religions, as we think of them today, are a new fad, even if they go back to around 6,000 years in the timeline of human existence, this amounts to almost nothing when seen in the long slow evolution of religion at least around 70,000 years ago with one of the oldest ritual worship. This message of how religion and gods among them are clearly a man-made thing that was developed slowly as it was invented and then implemented peace by peace discrediting them all. Which seems to be a simple point some are just not grasping how devastating to any claims of truth when we can see the lie clearly in the archeological sites.
Let’s make it simple:
Atheism is the reality position.
Theism is the anti-reality position!
I don’t need religion or its fake gods.
“Reason is my only master.”
I am will to power!
Here is why “Reason is my only master”
The most Base Presupposition begins in reason. Reason is needed for logic (logic is realized by the aid of reason enriching its axioms). Logic is needed for axiology/value theory (axiology is realized by the aid of logic). Axiology is needed for epistemology (epistemology is realized by the aid of axiology value judge and enrich its value assumptions as valid or not).
Epistemology is needed for a good ontology (ontology is realized with the aid of epistemology justified assumptions/realizations/conclusions). Then when one possesses a good ontology (fortified with valid and reliable reason and evidence) they can then say they know the ontology of that thing. Thinking is good and one claiming otherwise is indeed a person erroring in reason. Which may I remind you is terrible since the most Base Presupposition in our understanding of everything begins in reason.
So, I think, right thinking is reason. Right reason is logic. Right logic, can be used for mathematics and from there we can get to science. And, by this methodological approach, we get one of the best ways of knowing the scientific method. Activating experience/event occurs, eliciting our feelings/scenes. Then naive thoughts occur, eliciting emotions as a response. Then it is our emotional intelligence over emotional hijacking, which entrance us but are unavoidable and that it is the navigating this successfully in a methodological way we call critical thinking or as In just call right thinking.
So, to me, could be termed “Right” thinking, that is referring to a kind of methodological thinking. Reason is at the base of everything and it builds up from pragmatic approaches. And, to me, there are three main approaches to truth (ontology of truth) from the very subjective (Pragmatic theory of truth), to subjective (Coherence theory of truth), then onto objective (Correspondence theory of truth) but remember that this process as limited as it can be, is the best we have and we build one truth ontop another like blocks to a wall of truth.
Pragmatic theory of truth, Coherence theory of truth, and Correspondence theory of truth
In a general way, all reality, in a philosophic sense, is an emergent property of reason, and knowing how reason accrues does not remove its warrant. Feelings are experienced then perceived, leading to thinking, right thinking is reason, right reason is logic, right logic is mathematics, right mathematics is physics and from there all science.
Science is quite the opposite of just common sense. To me, common sense is experience related interpretation, relatively, as it generally relates to the reality of things in the world, which involves “naive realism” as well as possible psychological certainty and low epistemic certainty. Whereas, most of those who are scientific thinkers, hold typically more to scientific realism or other stances far removed from the limited common sense of naive realism. Science is a multidisciplinary methodological quest for truth. Science understands what is, while religion is wishing on what is not. Scientific realism sees external reality as described by science is what is REAL and thus TRUE with the highest epistemic certainty regardless of possible psychological certainty.
Getting Real with Logic
Logic is the result of rationalism, as what do you think gets you to logic if not starting at reason? I want to hear your justification for your claims, all the presuppositions you are evading to explain the links in your claims of truth. As it is invalid to just claim this without a justification for your professed claims and the presupposing you do to get there, that is not trying to use rationalism to refuse rationalist thinking. How are you making the statement and not appearing to what is the rationale behind it? If not, you must want to think “Logic is self-generating as valid” and this understood value is to you not reducible to reason? You are devoid of an offer of your burden of proof, first just try to keep up with the thinker’s responsibility to provide more than unjustified claims.
Logic is derived by axioms and thus using rationalism to validate them, think otherwise provide your proof. My Rationalism: is two things externalistic “scientific rationalism” a belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response. And internalistic “philosophic rationalism” the theory that reason is the most base presupposition before all others, rather than simply trying to rely on experience is the foundation of certainty in knowledge. Activating experience occurs we then have thinking, right (methodological) thinking (critical thinking) is reason, right reason is logic, right logic can be used for math, right math in response to the natural world is physics, and from there all other Sciences, physics is the foundation for chemistry and chemistry is the foundation of biology. May reason be your only master and may you also master reason.
Religion vs. Science, Don’t Confuse Beliefs
A basic outline of scientific epistemology:Science: Hypotheses (Rationalism/Deductive, Inductive, or Abductive Reasoning etc.) + Testing (Empiricism/Systematic Observation) – Checking for errors (Skepticism/Fallibilism) + Interpret/Draw a Conclusion (Rationalism/Deductive, Inductive, or Abductive Reasoning etc.) *if valid* = Scientific Laws (describes observed phenomena) or Scientific Theory (substantiated and repeatedly tested explanation of phenomena) = Justified True Belief = Scientific Knowledge = Epistemic Certainty supportive of correctability*being epistemically certain, is believing a truth has the highest epistemic status,often with warranted psychological certainty but it may not, neither is it a requirement*
“Damien, I have a question: Who/what gives humans value?”
My response, We give value, as value is an awareness and judgment, it is an emergent property of validation; the ability to use critical thinking and logic in a useful way, to conclude worth, benefit, or good.
I am the “one” you have been waiting for I am will to power, a deep thought so true it has taken
I am that freak of nature, a power from the anti-power crusaders, warring against the power dynamic to return it back where it belongs- the hands of the people. I am a free-thinking invader into the shell of malignancy infecting humanity which strangles reason out of the world. A proud anarchy theorist, I breathe the fire of the heathens, a thought revolutionary and mental freedom fighter. I am a humanist atheist who desires a better world for us all, one that is kinder, more just, and more rational in its pursuits.
Caring Firebrand Atheist ActivismProtest theocratic theism and its Impacting oppression on atheist Human Rights
The eyes of the world predicted my failure but here I am, I am a survivor, No longer do I hide my face, I no longer fear a fall from your grace for I find my courage plain as day in the human race, may I be a good human. May I put truth above all and valiantly thrust a crusade or truth and caring, which will help show love can and will in the end if only in my black heart so often close to that deadman’s plank. I am a fighter, I don’t need you to save me, I don’t need your empty claims of magic in the world, a stumbling block to many, yet, I am no longer one of them, I am will to power.
Say the truth plainly don’t allow pretend but do so with a caring desire to teach as one would to a friend. May I be a caring firebrand atheist. One, with
Reasons for or Types of Atheism
Damien AtHope on YouTube
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