Which is first Theism or Atheism?
“If you require your ideas to be protected from challenge. Then are you not admitting that your ideas are vulnerable to being destroyed by a challenge?”
We start not knowing and theism is an active belief state so it is after not knowing so atheism is the default, not belief. To me, disbelief also comes after not knowing or thinking about the question of beliefs. Now it is true that until 7 children do have animism “magical thinking” styles in general, so magical agency could be applied to anything by them, though to be honest, that is not the same as inferring this is theism belief.

I will now offer helpful but simplistic definitions of why a position of atheism could be chosen it is of course just an over-generalization but it will highlight the main idea though it always will be more substantive in reality and who is applying it.

Here is my list of non-theistic and theistic assumptions


  1. Weakest implicit Nontheistic/Atheism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” nonbelief similar to Nontheism
  2. Strong implicit Atheism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” nonbelief similar to Apatheist Atheism.
  3. Weak Explicit Atheism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” atheists similar to Agnostic Atheism.
  4. Strong Explicit Atheism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” atheists similar to Ignostic Atheism.
  5. Strongest Explicit Atheism “positive” / “strong” / “hard” atheists similar to Antitheist Atheism.


  1. Weakest implicit Theistic thinking/Theism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” belief similar to Somethingism(Ietsism)/Vague Theism
  2. Weak implicit Theism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” belief similar to apatheist theists.
  3. Weak Explicit Theism “negative” / “weak” / “soft” theists similar to agnostic theism.
  4. Strong Explicit Theism “positive” / “strong” / “hard” theists similar to standard theism.
  5. Strongest Explicit Theism “positive” / “strong” / “hard” theists similar to Gnostic theism.

What is a god?

Allowing that magical thinking or the possibility of magical thinking being real is clearly not supported by any facts in reality. Thus, it is just more a social engineering “indoctrinated belief” connected to learned magical thinking supernaturalism and/or superstitionism. When asked whether they believe in the existence of one or more Gods and/or Goddesses, Theists will say yes; strong Atheists will say no. Agnostics will say I don’t know or often cannot give a straight “Yes” or “No” answer but are still either classified as either Weak Theism or Weak Atheism as it’s a belief question and no matter how one tries to add or subtract other things the main issue still is, “do you believe in theism” if the answer is anything but yes or some variant of maybe yes then it’s a no; thus one is an atheist as all it takes is a lack of believing theism but it can be disbelief even a beliefs there is no god. Agnostics might respond with one of the following (Weak Theism or Weak Atheism):

One may ask what about just plain Agnosticism, Well there is no plain Agnosticism to me it is either some kind of weak theism or weak atheism and thus people are labeling themselves as agnostics but actually are some kind of weak theism or weak atheism.

Weak Theism and Weak Atheism Agnostics?

*Weak Theism (Agnostic)?

Weak Theism: Yes, a god(s) and/or goddess(es) exists though I am not sure or don’t know about god(s) and/or goddess(es) at this time.

Weak Theism: Yes, a god(s) and/or goddess(es) exists. However, we have no possibility or certainty of knowing anything about God, now or in the future.

Weak Theism: I think that a god(s) and/or goddess(es) exists but have no proof.

Weak Theism: I think so but cannot be positive that a god(s) and/or goddess(es) exists.

Weak Theism: I don’t know but will lead my life assuming that a god(s) and/or goddess(es) does exist just to be careful, perhaps because of the rewards or to stop some punishments one would receive if a god(s) and/or goddess(es) does exist.

Weak Theism: I worship a god (or a god and goddess, or a goddess, or some combination of god(s) and/or goddess(es) but cannot prove that they exist.

Weak Theism: I doubt it but cannot be sure a god(s) and/or goddess(es) doesn’t exist.

*Weak Atheism (Agnostic)?

Weak Atheism: I don’t know if a god(s) and/or goddess(es). (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: There will never be any way to know. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: There is no way to know, but perhaps someone will find a proof or disproof in the future. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: I cannot give an opinion because there is no way that we can prove the existence or non-existence of God given currently available knowledge. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: I don’t know but will lead my life in the assumption that no god(s) and/or goddess(es) exists. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: I will have to withhold my opinion/belief until god(s) and/or goddess(es), if one or many exist, decides to make his, her or their presence known by a strong provable indicator, which until now has ever happened. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Weak Atheism: The god(s) and/or goddess(es) that various believers worship are like unicorns: they are obviously fictional. However, who knows, I do not have certain disproof.

Feel you don’t know what god is or could be you might be an Ignostic but if so you don’t or can’t believe in theism. Ignosticism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless because the term “god” has no unambiguous definition. Ignosticism requires a good, non-controversial definition of god before arguing on its existence. (So, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

Feel you don’t care what god is or could be you might be an Apatheist but if so you don’t believe in theism. An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. An apatheist lives as if there are no gods and explains natural phenomena without reference to any deities. (Thus, they don’t believe theism thus are atheists)

I am not agnostic, so yes, while I have heard of the website, but it does not interest me I would be classified as anti-agnostic. Thanks for asking. My Anti-Agnostic Atheism Thinking: https://damienmarieathope.com/2016/02/my-anti-agnostic-atheism-thinking/

And, A Challenge to My Anti-Agnostic Thinking?: https://damienmarieathope.com/2018/04/a-challenge-to-my-anti-agnostic-thinking/

“Damien, I love most everything about you, but how can one be MORE than an agnostic without being dishonest with themselves? I mean, we tell the right they need to have evidence and use logic,… but then as atheists, one does the very thing they just said not to do to religious people… We cannot know for a FACT that there is a god, I understand that… But without some evidence to the contrary, we cant KNOW that there ISNT…. Human intellect and logic only goes so far.. Sure, i CHOOSE to live as though there is no god, but in being perfectly honest with ME, I cannot say there isn’t until I have proof… And the argument that you cant prove a negative is debunked… In math you can prove a negative, so you can do it in other realms as well… The point is, no evidence, no proof, no belief or disbelief. And using the other argument that an atheist is BORN THAT WAY, because it is just no belief is a bunch of crap. By now, atheists have proven that there is a logical thought based attachment to the term “atheist”. One can bring out the definition all one want, but the evidence is born out every day in the life of an atheist that it is a CHOICE one makes after having weighed the AVAILABLE evidence (or lack thereof) for a god, and dismissing it. The most honest position is to say, “I DONT KNOW, but I CHOOSE to act or be this way”. It has nothing to do with not having balls, or not having an education or intellect ( I have multiple degrees and a 146 IQ).” – Challenger

My response, Did you read my blogs above?

“IS it rational to ASSUME anything without evidence????? Didn’t you just justify the religious faith of billions????” – Challenger

My response, What! What is a god? Stop claiming to know “things” you do not know nor which you have no clue.

“Damien Marie AtHope if you didn’t understand that then you didn’t read it…. you ASSUMED…. that is performing an action of thought without the requisite LOGIC knowledge to support it, is it NOT?? How then, do you define faith?” – Challenger

My response, You don’t have a universal claim of what a god is, so first do that and make it valid and reliable to even require an assessment.

“Damien Marie AtHope Funny that you would IMMEDIATELY resort to ASSUMING that I believe in a god….Again, you’re assuming something on the basis that I provided an opposition to your thinking…. shame on you.” – Challenger

My response, I understand that all claims of god are made up nothing devoid of any kind of valid and reliable justification or warrant.

“Damien Marie AtHope and the belief you don’t have to provide an argument for something not proven is an easy out for the person that cant admit they don’t KNOW something but nevertheless claim there is no such thing……… Your problem is you try to shut down all dialog with the same claim….” – Challenger

My response, Again, no value is offered to require an assessment for the term god that is not truly anything.

“Damien Marie AtHope that you SAY is not truly anything…. smfh, and again, you shut down all dialog why???? Do you just not WANT to have the conversation??? Do you think there is a possibility there may be a flaw I YOUR logic so you don’t want to pursue it? I don’t understand… help me to understand, instead of stomping on me.” – Challenger

My response, No, I demand a valid offering of the claim and I know that not a person on the Earth can provide me what I asked and thus it is their failure to establish the burden of proof, not me. Lol And, great read my blogs and then ask me specific questions if you like.

“Damien Marie AtHope and AGAIN, because you can’t get past that SAME LAME front, you won’t try to think any more than the position you CHOOSE to hold… that’s sad.” – Challenger

My response, Do you think logic is evidence?

“Damien Marie AtHope I did… and I JUST DID! Do you??? Be careful how you answer as you will destroy your own walls….” – Challenger

My response, Ask it again relating to a claim I made in the blog.

“Damien Marie AtHope do you think LACK of evidence is evidence?” – Challenger

My response, Reason is my only master. And, No, I can “validate” all my claims.

“Damien Marie AtHope you just want to control things… I see that now… NO, I will ask it in the way I CHOOSE to… you will refuse to answer on that basis, proving my point for me. Damien Marie AtHope so you’re perfect?” – Challenger

My response, Is reason evidence? Archaeological, Scientific, & Philosophic evidence shows the god myth is man-made nonsense: https://damienmarieathope.com/2017/10/archaeological-scientific-philosophic-evidence-showing-the-god-myth-is-man-made-nonsense/

“NO!!! Don’t go to pointing me to other places… that is BULLSHIT! And that does NOTHING anyway, as I am NOT TRYING TO PROVE A GOD…. See? you lack the understanding as to what my position even is….. You do this often.” – Challenger

My response, What is a god to doubt? I don’t start my disbelief on the dilutions of god claims I assess are these claims warranted they are not so nothing to doubt so agnosticism starts with a presupposition of the term god to say they are unsure about, thus to me making a thinking error as there is no presupposition god term to reality. I stand with ignosticism, roughly that the term god is given to much leeway as a valid offering of a possible real thing when no god claim if limited to only reality coherent attributes all add nonsense like supernatural things one of which at its simplest a being or at least a thinking thing with no physical mind but can think, an invisible thing and of courses an immaterial thing such as the no physical body in any way. And there we see the problem with accepting any god claim as even reality coherent as it is not. All claims must be coherent with or correspond to reality and just like many theological nonsense terms such as the soul. I don’t know what people are talking about when they say the term “soul” (it’s a made-up concept which connects to nothing that is reality coherent) as there is no part of the body exhibits as such magic thinking idea, soul, thus a debunked claim and does not need doubt. Similarly, I don’t know what people are talking about when they say the term “god” (it’s a made-up concept which connects to nothing that is reality coherent) as there is no part of the body exhibits as such magic thinking idea, god, thus a debunked claim and does not need doubt. Kurtz, New Skepticism, 220: “Ignosticism or igtheism, finds the belief in a metaphysical, transcendent being basically incoherent and unintelligible.” And moreover, “Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of God and other theological concepts; including (but not limited to) concepts of faith, spirituality, heaven, hell, afterlife, damnation, salvation, sin and the soul. Ignosticism is the view that any religious term or theological concept presented must be accompanied by a coherent definition. Without a clear definition, such terms cannot be meaningfully discussed. Such terms or concepts must also be falsifiable. Lacking this, an ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the existence or nature of the terms presented (and all matters of debate) is meaningless. For example, if the term “God” does not refer to anything reasonably defined then there is no conceivable method to test against the existence of god. Therefore, the term “God” has no literal significance and need not be debated or discussed.

“Damien Marie AtHope and therein lies your contradiction!” – Challenger

My response, It is not bullshit to provide blogs that explain what you are trying to ask and I have been arguing with agnostic thinkers for over 10 years.

“Damien Marie AtHope and REPOSTING a repaste of the link I wished NOT to read is lame.” – Challenger

My response, There is no contradictory thing I stay what is a god, then challenge the offered assumptions.

“Damien Marie AtHope, it is bullshit to not form ORIGINAL thought SPECIFICALLY tailored to MY specific question in the NOW…. And, you’re trying to START the conversation with your OWN premise….” – Challenger

My response, Wrong, I start with “What is a god” question, remember, the one, no one can offer?

“Damien Marie AtHope AGAIN, I READ IT IN THE PAST!!!! YOURE the one not reading… and if you’re done like that, then you’re not the person you claim to be… you just lost my respect and unfriending. You just corporatized yourself, you’re no better than a bully.” – Challenger

My response, You do know that I am not the only public atheist what is not agnostic right so is Aron RA, Matt Dillahunty, David Silverman, and Peter Boghossian?

“Damien Marie AtHope so? I thought you were done… I was talking TO YOU because I respected you…. You want to treat me like a cookie cutter cut out you can throw pre-worded dialog at…. I deserve better than that. I am done here.” – Challenger

My response, Well, to you asking me if reason was evidence, absolutely. In a general way, all reality, in a philosophic sense, is an emergent property of reason, and knowing how reason accrues does not remove its warrant. Feelings are experienced then perceived, leading to thinking, right thinking is reason, right reason is logic, right logic is mathematics, right mathematics is physics and from there all science.

My response, Here is why “Reason is my only master”

The most Base Presupposition begins in reason. Reason is needed for logic (logic is realized by the aid of reason enriching its axioms). Logic is needed for axiology/value theory (axiology is realized by the aid of logic). Axiology is needed for epistemology (epistemology is realized by aid of axiology value judge and enrich its value assumptions as valid or not). Epistemology is needed for a good ontology (ontology is realized by the aid of epistemology justified assumptions/realizations/conclusions). Then when one possesses a good ontology (fortified with valid and reliable reason and evidence) they can then say they know the ontology of that thing.

My response, So, I think, right thinking is reason. Right reason is logic. Right logic, can be used for mathematics and from there we can get to science. And, by this methodological approach, we get one of the best ways of knowing the scientific method. Activating experience/event occurs, eliciting our feelings/scenes. Then naive thoughts occur, eliciting emotions as a response. Then it is our emotional intelligence over emotional hijacking, which entrance us but are unavoidable and that it is the navigating this successfully in a methodological way we call critical thinking or as In just call right thinking. So, to me, could be termed “Right” thinking, that is referring to a kind of methodological thinking. Reason is at the base of everything and it builds up from pragmatic approaches. And, to me, there are three main approaches to truth (ontology of truth) from the very subjective (Pragmatic theory of truth), to subjective (Coherence theory of truth), then onto objective (Correspondence theory of truth) but remember that this process as limited as it can be, is the best we have and we build one truth ontop another like blocks to a wall of truth.

Here is a response from another person seeing this dialog: 

Damien Marie AtHope I’ve encountered this troll before. Don’t waste your time. He’ll be threatening you next from whatever made up a place he claims to live in. When I dealt with him he was from Portland. Your best bet is to block this clear theist troll. I don’t argue with avatars and you are an obvious theist troll. Peace…” – Other Respondent 

“And remember you piece of shit, I BLOCKED YOU!! (Other Respondent), you run your mouth online, JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE, then when I give you my address to come talk that shit in person, you run away like THE TROLL YOU ARE! And thank you for proving my point once again.” – Challenger

I blocked you, bro. Now you are lying. And this is your 4th or 5th profile I’ve seen you under. Explain that?

(Other Respondent), yet here you are….” – Challenger

Not to argue with you. I’m only here to let Damien Marie AtHope know who he is dealing with.

“No, I am NOT an OBVIOUS theist anything. If oyu had ANY intelligence, you would see that I am an OBVIOUS AGNOSTIC human being, and YOU are STILL the proven troll. Again… yet here you are… trolling. (Other Respondent), so Damien is too stupid??? Is that what you’re saying??? Damien, EVEN I give you more credit than that!!! Now burn the fuck out you piece of coward shit troll. NO, I BLOCKED YOU!!! Why are YOU lying???!!! I have PLENTY of accounts… Why is THAT any of YOUR business??? Nor does it change the definition of a troll…AGAIN, you’re here spreading LIES that can be PROVEN BY my multiple accounts… I am NOTHING like a theist. Troll, you don’t do definitions though I see… And, Damien, you REALLY should find a better base. At least Trumps ADMIT they don’t care about the truth… – Challenger

My response, Challenger, you are the one now acting troll-like and you have tried many personal attacks on me and now others, simply this is not acceptable and not a valid way to talk to people. Please improve your discussion etiquette, as I would and do value as a positive intellectual standard of sticking to ideas and not making it about the people, thanks.

Damien Marie AtHope I am most CERTAINLY not the one acting troll-like. AGAIN, the definition fits HIS comment, NOT mine…AND AGAIN, all I did was ask a question you went off… stop lying… Personal attacks???? wow… poor you. NOt making it about the people?? Really? You just said that with a straight face???? “So you are not reading then I am finished talking about this with you, cool. Take care.” THIS is why I unfriended you… you’re a liar and a deceiver… AND you make it all about you…. then accuse me of attacking you… I NEVER attacked YOU, I attacked you THINKING… but GOD forbid someone should EVER do that to the great late Damien Marie AtHope… smfh. Then to top it off,… you call ME a troll when WE were the ones IN A CONVERSATION.. or trying to… and then this piece f shit jumps in, THE DEFINITION of a troll… but you IGNORE him because he AGREES with you… YOURE THE ONE that made this the shit it is… Don’t try turning it around. You’re a TYPICAL atheist and prove my point all the way. Atheists are NEVER wrong… And everyone else ALWAYS is… smfh…” – Challenger

My response, Challenger, And this behavior by you is why I am now happy if you do unfriended me. Take care.


Challenging Agnosticism Assumptions: https://damienmarieathope.com/2017/11/challenging-agnosticism-assumptions/

Ignostic Atheist?: https://damienmarieathope.com/2017/05/ignostic-atheist/

Damien, how do you feel about agnostics?:

“Damien, how do you feel about agnostics, such as myself. I admire some of the values of some religions as a guide to life, but I get to choose. I am with Pascal and Einstein, I don’t think the concept of God is rational, but I lose nothing by being a decent person, just in case.” Questioner

My response, How you pose the question of how I feel about agnostics, seems to infer that people who are agnostic unless I am misunderstanding, and on such a question of how I feel towards my fellow humans, agnostic or otherwise, well I strive to treat them humanistically, fairly, and equally. If you are instead asking if I am consenting in any way to agnostic thinking, my answer would unequivocally state no. I see agnostic thinking as a flaw in reasoning that seems to at least in some way accept the empty assertions of religion. I always work to attack thinking and not people. Furthermore, I have friends on Facebook that are religious and don’t attack or even give them a hard time, I just address my thinking on my pages not at anyone unless they challenge me or the like.


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